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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:53 pm
Posts: 129
Chiva wrote:
I rode Q rings for about 2 years. My power numbers don't show they helped. They make for bad front shifting b/c sometimes the FD over shifts b/c the chainring isn't tall enough due to its elliptical nature. Kinda hard to explain but if you saw it you'd understand. BTW, if you want my used ones to try them out you can have them cheap. Shimano 53/39. I went back to round rings and my power numbers haven't dropped and my FD shifts well.


I've been on them for 2 years also and this is how I feel. I'd actually like to swap out for normal rings and see if I 'feel' a diff.


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:49 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:06 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4453
Location: Canada
I was using them on all my bikes for several seasons. For certain types of efforts, I was pretty sure that they were useful. You can't just look at power, you also need to look at heart rate. I have switched back and forth from Q-rings to round, but am considering testing Osymetric, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:05 pm
Posts: 326
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. If these were so great, then every pro tour rider would be using them right? I mean these guys are only needing a 1% advantage to be a grand tour winner.


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1402
Chiva wrote:
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. If these were so great, then every pro tour rider would be using them right? I mean these guys are only needing a 1% advantage to be a grand tour winner.


By that logic we'd have to say round rings aren't all that great either :wink: I mean if they were so great wouldn't every pro tour rider be using them :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:00 pm
Posts: 73
I've used them for a year now. My experience is that as well as generally feeling better with a smoother pedal stroke, I use a higher cadence with qrings than without. My cruising rpm used to be in the low to mid 90's and is now in the low to mid 100's. It took a while to get used to them while standing on steep climbs, but I've found that I also raise my cadence for longer while out the saddle than previously, with a quicker more fluid motion than a big gear honk. Overall I feel that I have longer "power" stroke, say from one o'clock to six o'clock, while on round rings its a narrower range of 2 o'clock to 5 o'clock

I can't however attribute the increases in power that I've seen over the year to the use of qrings; there are clearly too many other variables. I didnt expect an increase in power just by switching over, as there was definitely an adaptation period - I had a month or so where my hamstrings were getting a workout in manner that they hadnt previously. There is more to cycling than a power number though. Unfortunately the other things (comfort, fatigue over long distances, recovery/how tired you feel the next day, etc) are much harder to quantify than 5s/1m/5m/ftp power output.

It does seem that they work for some people, and not for others - that appears true in my club and in the pro tour! I think I had a bit of a lumpy pedal stroke previously, so perhaps if you have an efficient smooth stroke already you wont benefit; however if you've a sub optimal stroke they may give some assistance.

jon


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:35 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:49 am
Posts: 2080
Location: Denmark
Chiva wrote:
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. If these were so great, then every pro tour rider would be using them right? I mean these guys are only needing a 1% advantage to be a grand tour winner.


Can you say "sponsor issues"? It's very hard to be allowed to put other chainrings on a Shimano, SRAM or Campy crank. Sky does it.
The last grand tour winner did in fact use them. ;-)
As for people expecting to have a massive gain in power numbers by using Q-rings, that's not the big factor here. As many has written, it's the less fatigue and faster recovery that's the biggest advantage, as your system works more effectively.


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:23 am
Posts: 55
Will using qrings for a certain amount of time help pedaling stroke? As in if I train on them then go back to round rings, will my pedal stroke become better or smoother?

One reason why I never tried qrings or osym rings is that I do not want to become dependent on them. I know in the long run Ill end up on round rings..


Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4453
Location: Canada
+1! Besides the sponsorship issue, I can't think of a more 'conventional', superstitious lot than pro cyclists! It takes a lot to get the pro teams to change anything they do (I could probably extrapolate to racing cyclists generally). I can't even think of all the stuff I do because 'that's the way it's done' in cycling.

There is another thing with the Osymetrics. I have a friend who still races professionally who is on the Osymetric rings. He has warned that you cannot switch back and forth between round and Osymetric rings like you can with Rotor. That may be a pretty serious drawback to a non-pro wi lots of bike options...


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:49 am
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Location: Denmark
No. Their oval shape forces you to spend longer time in the "active" zone and less time in the "passive/dead" zone. Going back to a round ring will make your legs do what they did before.


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:38 pm
Posts: 243
I rode them for over a year, was never really sure that they made any difference other than quite poor front shifting.
Broke my compact cranks and went back to round chainrings and the first couple rides felt a lot faster then. I think though this is just more that change feels different. I also had to go to shorter cranks as the ones that broke were my 180s. Sold them, won't go back, prefer round rings and good front shifting.


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3747
Location: Bay Area
Chiva wrote:
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. If these were so great, then every pro tour rider would be using them right? I mean these guys are only needing a 1% advantage to be a grand tour winner.

Half of the Vuelta top 10 used them. Wiggins has won medals on non-round rings and lots of stages have been won on them as well. They're obviously not hurting anyone so people reason that since they feel better and aren't detrimental necesssarily that they're worth keeping.

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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:24 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:05 pm
Posts: 326
KWalker wrote:
Chiva wrote:
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. If these were so great, then every pro tour rider would be using them right? I mean these guys are only needing a 1% advantage to be a grand tour winner.

Half of the Vuelta top 10 used them. Wiggins has won medals on non-round rings and lots of stages have been won on them as well. They're obviously not hurting anyone so people reason that since they feel better and aren't detrimental necesssarily that they're worth keeping.


The other half of the top 10 used round rings. Armstrong and Ullrich won several TdF on round rings as well as many other riders winning many other stages on them as well. Same argumentcan be used for round rings obviously. I understand what you mean. I think the actual rotor crank that totally eliminates the dead spot would be helpful and do what it claims to do but it's heavy. Rotor said they are redesigning it. We'll see.


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:37 am
Posts: 63
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I've been using the non-aero rotor rings with my Campag cranks/mechs and a KMC 11sl chain for about 2 months.

They feel different no question. To me it feels like more fluid power through the pedal stroke but I tend to stomp the pedals and run a low cadence.
Because of the nature of the set-up I think they are "effective" in the saddle but as soon as you stand to climb and shift your body forward all the benefits seem to disappear. Because you are further forward, you change the area of "dead zone" and don't maximise the benefits of the ring shape.

Image

I'll be sticking with them for sure. Haven't had any problem shifting and even if it's all in my head, I feel faster :D

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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3747
Location: Bay Area
Chiva wrote:
KWalker wrote:
Chiva wrote:
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. If these were so great, then every pro tour rider would be using them right? I mean these guys are only needing a 1% advantage to be a grand tour winner.

Half of the Vuelta top 10 used them. Wiggins has won medals on non-round rings and lots of stages have been won on them as well. They're obviously not hurting anyone so people reason that since they feel better and aren't detrimental necesssarily that they're worth keeping.


The other half of the top 10 used round rings. Armstrong and Ullrich won several TdF on round rings as well as many other riders winning many other stages on them as well. Same argumentcan be used for round rings obviously. I understand what you mean. I think the actual rotor crank that totally eliminates the dead spot would be helpful and do what it claims to do but it's heavy. Rotor said they are redesigning it. We'll see.


You didn't read a key portion of my and most of the poster's statements. THEY AREN'T HURTING THEM AND THEY LIKE THE WAY THEY FEEL. It's as simple as that. Lots of people ride lots of setups that give them 0 net gain, but they do so because of some random sensation associated with that piece of equipment. Look at all the pros riding way too long and low, which has more of a detrimental effect on riding, but is done anyways out of some sort of weird tradition of feeling that they're more aerodynamically efficient.

There haven't been enough completely controlled and double blind lab comparisons to show whether or not the efficiency claims are accurate or not. Every single study has had some weakness- not controlling for an SRM's inherency to assume the rings are round, only comparing short anaerobic power, or using a small amount of untrained cyclists over a very short period of time.

As for the shifting that's all you. I have ridden Q-Rings and we have lots and lots of customers who love them. I've installed them on numerous bikes with every single groupset and managed to get it to shift perfectly. Its not easy at first, but if you use Google and read how people have shimmed/altered the adjustment of their derailleurs to accommodate the rings its fairly simple. Not as amazing as stock 7900 or Super Record, but I've come across many bikes that shift just as well or better than a stock Sram setup.

As for Rotor vs. O-Sys most people I've spoken to end up going towards O-Sys since they feel that the Rotor rings do not actually alter their stroke that much. Of the O-Sys users not a single one has ever gone back to round rings. I conversed with Shaun at SRM about the accuracy of readings with the O-Sys rings and once the normal offset procedure has been performed the units will read accurately. Of the people that use them with an SRM, none have felt that their training gains have been hampered and many have over half a decade of data to demonstrate any gains that have occurred while using them. Such gains can't be isolated, but its enough to leave them on. All of the riders have managed to achieve good front shifting using them and many report that its better than the Rotor rings (how this is possible I do not know, but so they claim).

So lets recap:
1. It isn't hurting a lot of people to run them pro or otherwise. They like the feel and still perform well. Psychological advantages like these often outweigh outright material gains.
2. You can set them up to shift perfectly fine if you know what you're doing or your mechanic has set them up before. It can be annoying until you learn this, but its not that hard.
3. People who have used both tend to go O-Sys and do not go back. Its not hindering them and they have also managed to achieve good front shifting.

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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:18 am
Posts: 124
Chiva doesn't care if you like 'em riding or not, he doesn't, and that's all that matters!!


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 Post subject: Re: Rotor Q-Rings
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:49 pm 


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