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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:34 am 
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kervelo wrote:
German Tour magazine tested some tyres in their September 2011 issue. The Michelin Pro4 Race Comp had approximately the same rolling resistance (40,9 Watts) as the Conti GP 4Season (40,4 Watts), which is a bomb proof winter tyre. The best tyre in the test was Conti GP Attack/Force (31,3 Watts).


What other tires were tested? and where did the 4000s fall on that test?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Location: Finland
The Tour did not have the 4000S in the test. The new attack/force tyres have the same technical specs as the Conti RS tyre, which is no longer produced in 2012.

These are the tyres tested and their result (smaller number means better result):
Conti attack/force 1,5
Conti 4season 25mm 2,1
Hutchinson Fusion3 3,0
Hutchinson Fusion3 tubeless 2,8
Michelin Pro4 race comp 2,4
Michelin optimum 25mm 2,5
Schwalbe Ultremo DD 25mm 3,0
Schwalbe Ultremo Zx 2,0
Specialized roubaix pro 2,8
Specialized turbo pro 2,6
Vittoria Diamante pro 3,3
Vittoria Rubino pro 3,0


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:15 pm 
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i've ridden the conti 4-season and the 4000S. both tires lack road feel. you would expect the 4-season to be dead feeling as it's a puncture-proof winter tire, but the 4000S should be much more supple feeling than it is. it's not terrible, but both the michelin pro 3's and the vittoria corsa evo are both so much more communicative.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:11 pm 
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Location: New York City
kervelo wrote:
The Tour did not have the 4000S in the test. The new attack/force tyres have the same technical specs as the Conti RS tyre, which is no longer produced in 2012.

These are the tyres tested and their result (smaller number means better result):
Conti attack/force 1,5
Conti 4season 25mm 2,1
Hutchinson Fusion3 3,0
Hutchinson Fusion3 tubeless 2,8
Michelin Pro4 race comp 2,4
Michelin optimum 25mm 2,5
Schwalbe Ultremo DD 25mm 3,0
Schwalbe Ultremo Zx 2,0
Specialized roubaix pro 2,8
Specialized turbo pro 2,6
Vittoria Diamante pro 3,3
Vittoria Rubino pro 3,0


thank you for taking the time to post that. i would have loved to test the 4000RS - anyone carry new old stock of that tire?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:14 pm 
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Posts: 106
racingcondor wrote:
Like the others here I can compare GP4000S to the Pro3. Here are the pro's and con's as I see them -

GP4000S - Great grip in the wet, reasonable puncture resistance. I puncture about once every 2,000 miles riding South of London (lots of flint washed into the road when it rains). The drawbacks are that they feel rough and unforgiving and that the sidewalls aren't very durable.

Pro3 - Great grip in the wet (probably better than the Conti's) and mediocre puncture resistance but they feel much better than the Conti's. The problem is that using them here in winter destroys them quickly (very soft rubber compound), they're fine in the dry though. I have some Pro4's on the way which I plan on racing our winter crits on so will report back if this thread is still visable by the weekend.

I train on GP4000S and race on Pro3's (or in very good weather Vittoria's which have awful puncture resistance and equally awful wet weather grip but ride beautifully in good conditions). I'm perfectly happy racing Pro3's through the winter crit series so while they're a little delicate they're not that bad (it's Kent/Surrey country lanes that destroy them).



I second all of this entirely. (And I'm also London-based, where southern excursions also result in my Pro3's getting punctured/eaten!). I race Vittorias in perfect weather, Pro3s in anything else, currently have 25mm GP4000s on for winter training (which have almost all of the grip of the Pro3's but much better durability, even more so on both counts in 25mm guise). My GP4000s are near the end of their life and I've just purchased Ultremo DD's in 25mm to try something new. Been on one ride on them and impression is favourable: the sidewalls are noticably more substantial than any of the others, haven't tested the grip but I expect it to be ball-park there. The only thing.... the 25mm DD's barely measure 23mm mounted! They're seriously thin, thinner than e.g. 23mm Open Corsas which had just come off the rim. Not cool, as half of the reason to run 25's is to be able to drop pressures without risking pinch flats, which I'm now reluctant to do - shame, as these are almost the perfect winter tyre. In contrast 25mm GP4000s do actually measure 25mm, and 25mm PR3s run super fat (great tyres, fast comfy and grippy, but I don't have clearance on one of my frames).

Would be very interested to hear how you go with the Pro4's.

Regards,


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Location: Sweden
I was equally didsappointed with the width of my 25mm Ultremo ZX that came in 23mm, as my old 23mm Ultremo ZX was 24mm on the same rim. Although I've noticed that they've grown quite a bit when mounted. Were up to 24.5mm average (19mm OD rim) after a month and then stopped growing.

Read on other foruma that this is fairly usual with tires, both road and mtb, that they stretch a fair bit. But still compared to 25mm Pro3 they are tiny.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:44 am 
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Posts: 141
Pro 4's - First impressions.

OK, just picked these up and thought I'd take the time to respond before doing much else.

Weight - 206g and 208g vs the websites 200g (+- 7%) isn't bad at all.

Image

Feel - Comparing the two tyres in my hand there seems to have been a slight design change, the Pro4 has a noticable bump in the middle of the tyre (presumably the thicker rubber will help durability). The rubber itself seems to be slightly harder but there's very little in it, it's still very tacky to touch.



I'll post a ride report later (assuming the weather doesn't get my race cancelled).


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:41 pm 
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Posts: 141
I'll keep the ride report short.

Pro4's ride very similarly to Pro3's except that there's not a mark on my tyres and at least one of the two punctures that we had in todays Crit was one of the people riding Pro3's (wet day, plenty of grit on the circuit). Fairly sure it was both.

Grip was very reliable and predictable (like Pro3's), I didn't doubt it at any time even though I momentarily locked up the rear in a corner avoiding a crash.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:54 pm 
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Posts: 238
Could you feel any difference cornering on the new profile? (Not that I can usually feel even a badly squared off tire...) Will be interesting to see what the ones with the faster casing are like when they turn up.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:53 am 
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>Pro3 "mediocre puncture resistance"

Jeez, I'd like to know that is good puncture resistance then!! Never had a flat during the last 2 years.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:52 am 
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ave wrote:
>Pro3 "mediocre puncture resistance"

Jeez, I'd like to know that is good puncture resistance then!! Never had a flat during the last 2 years.


i understand your experience. my friend did very little mileage on gp4000s and got a couple of flats and he does not think they are puncture proof. i get over 3000 miles from rear (i weigh between 175 - 180) on my gp4000s and zero punctures. to me they (GP4000s) are the most bomb proof light training tire there is. many have shared their exp. with the gp4000s and it is almost unanimous about tire longevity and puncture resistance; their great in that respect, but they leave something to be desired with feel.

dont get me wrong, i want to see what the pro 4 COMP with new casing brings to the table. though they are not for sale yet.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:53 pm 
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Posts: 93
Location: Portsmouth UK
ave wrote:
>Pro3 "mediocre puncture resistance"

Jeez, I'd like to know that is good puncture resistance then!! Never had a flat during the last 2 years.


I've had two this morning on my pro 3's :( the first ever! this set are only a few months old too.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:12 am 
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Posts: 141
ave wrote:
>Pro3 "mediocre puncture resistance"

Jeez, I'd like to know that is good puncture resistance then!! Never had a flat during the last 2 years.


I think the difficulty that Pro3s have is probably because of local riding conditions here.

In the country lanes near London there is a lot of flint which gets washed into the road in wet conditions and because the Pro3 is very soft rubber tends to stick to/in the tyre, as a result they puncture quite a bit here in wet conditions (i.e. about 4 months of the year). The GP4000 doesn't seem to suffer the same problems which is why I commute and use GP4000S in winter and switch to Michelins for training as soon as I can in summer.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:24 am 
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petromyzon wrote:
Could you feel any difference cornering on the new profile? (Not that I can usually feel even a badly squared off tire...) Will be interesting to see what the ones with the faster casing are like when they turn up.


Nothing I noticed. I wouldn't say I took a scientific test to judging the difference though, I held one of each in my hands so I could get a feel for the difference in the rubber and noticed the bump. I suspect it's about as much rubber as you lose squaring off the old tyre and I've never been able to feel that.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:27 am 
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Posts: 238
Thanks! Yeah, I gather the new shape is supposed to help them find the shoulder rubber more quickly when you lean them over, and to make them quicker, but in practice maybe we will just be able to run them for a bit longer on the rear before they are totally square:)


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