Michelin Pro 4's vs Conti 4000S ?

[1415chris]

Just treat yourself with veloflex and you will be able to find out that conti is not in the same league.
For the last two south east england winter seasons I have been on conti 4000s. No much milage and the rear is already squered, not mentioning the side cuts. More less the similar mileage I'm getting from veloflex corsa till it's off the diamond pattern.
End every spring when I switch back to veloflex clinchers, or start using their tubulars, there is always smile on my face.
This winter season, as I've never been happy how the conti rolls, decided to try something better and indeed, vittoria corsa sr feels much better.
What I'm saying is, 4000s are not bad tires, but there are much better out there.

[kgt]

dunbar42
I just posted the tests in order to show the variance of results. I don't believe in lab tests where the incosistent relief of the tarmac is replaced by a smooth metal drum.
As 1415chris suggests you may just try a pair of Veloflex or Vittoria or Challenge. The ride quality is at another level.

[NGMN]

The span in time between those tests is huge. Roller/drum testing correlates well to on road crr, its not perfect but good.

AFM and Tom Anhalt see striking similarities between their data.

[dunbar42]

Just treat yourself with veloflex and you will be able to find out that conti is not in the same league.
For the last two south east england winter seasons I have been on conti 4000s. No much milage and the rear is already squered, not mentioning the side cuts. More less the similar mileage I'm getting from veloflex corsa till it's off the diamond pattern.

Contis square off pretty early but it has no effect on durability. I got 8k miles out of my last set of GP4000S tires. Small cuts in the tread don't matter either. I have no doubt that tires with much less puncture protection ride better. But I'd rather not be constantly be fixing flats on the side of the road. The road conditions here in Los Angeles are not seasonal so there is no benefit in running something like a Veloflex tire in the spring/summer and the GP4000S in the fall/winter.

[spartan]

dunbar42
I just posted the tests in order to show the variance of results. I don't believe in lab tests where the incosistent relief of the tarmac is replaced by a smooth metal drum.
As 1415chris suggests you may just try a pair of Veloflex or Vittoria or Challenge. The ride quality is at another level.

really smooth metal drums.....

read...

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/12/ ... nce_355085

[kgt]

Nice article! It totally backs up my argument:

"The thinner the threads, the higher the thread count in TPI, which is simply the number of thread wraps lined up next to each other in one inch of the casing fabric [...] Generally, the higher the thread count, the more supple the casing. That’s because the threads are thinner in high thread-count tires, making the casing thinner, lighter, and more flexible. Also, when the tire encounters an object, thinner, lower-mass threads will be able to move and absorb the object into the casing more quickly than will thicker threads [...] The only other tire in the test with a 300 TPI casing is the 24mm Strada, the tire that came out with the lowest rr of any of the tires [...] Since the 25mm Strada has a stiffer casing, a wider tread, and a wider puncture-protection belt than the 24mm Strada, it is not surprising that it has higher rr than does the narrower Strada."

To sum up: higher TPI adds to a lower rr and better road feel.

[kgt]

Also:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/10/ ... ore_305325

"A handmade tubular or “open tubular” clincher tire is generally made by folding the edges over and sewing them together (tubular) or folding them over a Kevlar bead (open tubular clincher). But the doubling over of the casing along the edge is not added to the thread count. When it says 290TPI or 320TPI on a high-end handmade tire of this type, that is what’s in one layer of casing (which is two layers of threads). As for how it rides, the casing is more supple the thinner the threads are (assuming they’re not stuck too tightly together). It more easily absorbs small inconsistencies in the riding surface, and this reduces the rolling resistance and increases the grip by increasing the amount of contact between the tire and the riding surface."

So... ride before you write.

[Tinea Pedis]

crr isn't the whole picture, as this blog demonstrates

http://bikeblather.blogspot.fr/2014/07/ ... -town.html

tl;dr the 4000s isn't close to the 320TPI tyres in rolling resistance. But makes up a lot with its aero profile.


I'll even hold back from an equally snide reply related to riding before you write

[kgt]

Sorry about the "snide" reply but the upgrade in terms of ride quality some nice tires can offer is just too obvious IME.
And I just don't care whether a tire is more "aero" when it feels like a garden hose. Sorry...

[fa63]

I rode Veloflex Corsa for about 2 years, before switching to Michelin Pro4 SC earlier this year. I have to say that so far I prefer the Michelin.

I should state though; the 25 mm Corsas measure barely 24 mm on my rims, while the 25 mm Michelin measure more like 27 mm so I can run slightly lower pressures without them feeling squirmy.

[DWatkinsBSB]

fa63, which Pro4 and how has it been puncture wise?

Cheers!

[NGMN]

Its funny, because I think the most glaring issue in the velonews data is that tread width likely has an effect
the tread isn't going to be anywhere near as supple as a bare sidewall. So for the 22mm tire to have a 30mm tread seems like a big disadvantage. So until they do a better job comparing apples, its just some data on specific tires.

That article also doesn't mention rubber compounds which as we've seen from Conti can make a big difference.

[fa63]

fa63, which Pro4 and how has it been puncture wise?

Cheers!

I am using the Service Course model. No flats so far in about 1500 km of riding. That said, I don't get a whole lot of flats with any decent tire (including the Veloflex, which some claim to be a delicate tire).

[davidalone]

crr isn't the whole picture, as this blog demonstrates

http://bikeblather.blogspot.fr/2014/07/ ... -town.html

tl;dr the 4000s isn't close to the 320TPI tyres in rolling resistance. But makes up a lot with its aero profile.


I'll even hold back from an equally snide reply related to riding before you write

if you hang out on slowtwitch alot... you'll also find that Tom A. and others have pretty much determined that the aero properties of the GP4000 go out the window pretty quickly once they start to wear. Plus, the gp4000 needs to be matched well to your wheels... which not all are.

in the end, it's a 'system' . you want the lowest combination of aero properties and Crr. a low Crr can make up for alot of aero sins, as Tom A has said... so I would honestly go with the lowest Crr you can find ( with an acceptable level of puncture resistance you're comfortable with....). the aero poperties of the gp4000 are good to have but are probably not that much of a big deal.

some of the standout tyres IMO are:
schwalbe ironman
specialized turbo cotton
zipp tangente speed ( new model)
Vitorria corsa and coti supersonics ( if you have good roads)
conti GP force/attacks and GP 4000s

any o the above will, really give you pretty good performance.

[NGMN]

Its my understanding that the attack quickly loses its aero edge, but that the gp4000s holds its advantage a bit longer. Still not anywhere near the useful life of the tire but the attack is something like 400km according to joshatzipp(now Silca).