Michelin Pro 4's vs Conti 4000S ?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
kode54
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

russianbear wrote:That calculator is not to be trusted methinks. Put 90 in the front 100 in the rear, riding tomorrow.

Mounted the PRO4 25 fatties on my scott cr1. Clearance in the rear:

http://i.imgur.com/dgewh.jpg


that's what i pretty much run...although my front comes down a bit to 85 with the rear at 100.
- AX Lightness Vial EVO D + DA9150 + Enve SES 3.4 carbon hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee ESX + DA9150 + THM SRM PM + Enve SES 6.7 CK hubs
- Independent Fabrication Ti FLW + DA9100 + Enve 3.4 CK hubs

by Weenie


kode54
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

Toby wrote:
qeaou wrote:After riding GP4000s for a couple of years, I tried Pro4's, loved the grip on dry surface, excellent descents,
however got too many punctures, 5 in 2 months (always checked inside tyre, rim everything after a tube swap)
had to go back to GP's as my teammates would start hating me for the delays on rides...

Would definitely go to Pro4's again in certain conditions, but they are certainly not an all rounder (which they were not designed to be anyway)


The puncture thing is what has me hesitant to switch away from the GP4K - which version of the Pro4 did you try? Was it the regular Service Course, or one of the lighter ones?


i think the GP4000s is more prone to sidewall casing splits. i.e., catching sharper objects on the road like sharper rocks and slicing the sidewalls.
- AX Lightness Vial EVO D + DA9150 + Enve SES 3.4 carbon hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee ESX + DA9150 + THM SRM PM + Enve SES 6.7 CK hubs
- Independent Fabrication Ti FLW + DA9100 + Enve 3.4 CK hubs

NealH
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 3:40 am
Location: Triange, NC

by NealH


i think the GP4000s is more prone to sidewall casing splits. i.e., catching sharper objects on the road like sharper rocks and slicing the sidewalls.



Not really. Certainly not when they are inflated properly. I've got many thousands of mile on Conti 4000's and they are robust and reliable. They don't flat, not on the tread or the sidewall.

Bellcurve
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:20 pm

by Bellcurve

Not to beat a dead horse, but...

I have about 800 to 900 miles on Pro4 Service Course (23) that were purchased to replace Conti GP4000Ss. The Contis had 2500 miles and the damn things looked to go another couple thousand. But my fillings couldn't stand it. Their role is general training, group rides and the occasional informal crit. As others have noted the Contis are not supple tires, the feedback is non-existent, and they just feel numb, and hard. The Michelins were an immediate improvement, much smoother ride, and after a few hundred miles break-in are at least as fast and have much better road feel than the GP4000Ss.

As to tubes...I started the Pro4s with Michelin latex but just last week wanted to experiment a bit and changed them over to 50 gram butyls (the Lunar Lite tubes once sold by Performancebike.com) which I've really liked. The differences are small but in favor of the latex, I think, maybe I'm just inventing the difference. The latex seems just a bit smoother at equal pressure, and when pumped a few PSI higher seem just a little faster. I abandoned standard weight/thickness butyl tubes a long time ago. The mid-weights (70-80 gram), like Michelin Light, Conti Race Lite, etc aren't nearly as nice feel or speed wise as the Lunar Lites or latex but much better than standards. Reliability wise I've never noticed a whit of difference between any of them.

Compared to high tpi "open tubulars" (e.g., Veloflex, Vittoria Corsa CX) the Pro4s are at a disadvantage as to feel, speed, and wonderfulness. No doubt they'll last longer, they haven't flatted yet and have no cuts, just a bit of flattening on the rear which I just rotated with the front. I'm starting to migrate to these open tubular types on all my wheels because, as someone else here has noted, life is too short to ride mediocre tires. I'll keep the Pro4s active, going back to latex soon, and may even buy another set when they go to have something a bit more sturdy and safer in the rain, but the delta between them and the Veloflex type tires is stark, and compelling.

I should note that I'm able to ride very good roads: no glass, no thorns, no junk of any kind, smooth and well maintained.

User Name
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by User Name

I agree with much of that, although I don't reckon the Contis are quite that harsh :D.

I'm sure I've said this on here before, but I reckon the 4000S is nothing more than a nice-ish training tyre, and it really surprises me that it performs well on the rolling resistance tests. In fact, it's so ordinary-feeling, that I stopped using them as front training tyres, because I prefer something nicer under my hands. Many people, whose opinion I respect, consider them the best thing since stretch denim. ??? I just use them as training rears and as rears at some races that I ride to.

The benefits are that they're affordable, easy to get, and provide decent wear and puncture protection. I've had no sidewall issues with mine; well, no more than I've had with any other tyre.

The Pro4 Service course is a little nicer, and I'm keen to try to the lighter version. Michelin seem to be very good at making good tyres, even with low TPIs.

It still pisses me off that they got rid of the Pro 2. Why do that? Most companies won't do that; they'll just make teeny tweaks to improve current designs, not wipe out a successful model and replace it with something that was arguably worse (the Pro 3). Having said that, I suspect that the Pro4 is heavily based on the Pro 2

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Rick
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by Rick

I use Contis with religious devotion. :D

Every decade or so I try something else. Last time it was Michelin Pro3. I am bitterly disappointed and feel like my money was ripped off, so I go back to Contis and forget about it for another decade. :)

Edit: I just realized that this thread is so old and long that I already answered once before. Sorry.

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carbonLORD
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by carbonLORD

Never liked Conti's. Always dry rot and the sidewall became wooly like hairs sticking out after the first wet ride. 4000s look different but they've always been pretty harsh.

Used to use Pro Race back when, always liked them, last long, looked the part and lasted a long time. I rarely ride in the rain, but when I did I never felt my confidence diminish as they did what they were supposed to do.

I started using Vittoria's several years ago. First set were Diamante Pros. Loved them, though a bit soft, worked in wet or dry and felt great, supple and lasted pretty well. Moved up int Open Corsa EVO CX and they were just as good, just as soft but were lighter, very comfortable and stable. I believe they are worth the asking price.

I recently built up a S-WORKS Venge and decided to give the Pro 4 race Comps a go. Really satisfied with the cornering right out of the box. What I was not impressed by is the bump in both where the seam is. I can feel it on smoother roads at low (non riding really) speeds but when you spin them up from 12mph and on its not an issue. On my rollers, they suck but I have other tires for the Kreitlers. The biggest disappointment is the 10mm slit in the sidewall after less then 100Km of use. Hit a circular cut out in a group ride, instantly flatted (didnt ruin the ENVE's thank the LORD) and had to fold up a €5 Euro to get home. I will order another one, because I have a brand new front but I was heavily considering just putting Vittorias on it and accepting that the sidewall durability just isn't there for these tires.

If it happens again, one tire will be sold on eBay in favor of the Vittorias. Time will tell....
carbonLORD.com

tinozee
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by tinozee

I hated the Pro 4s compared to 4000s. They felt slow and super sticky to me. I rode them like twice and took them off and left in garage. I put worn 4000s back on and felt improvement..

But that said, I kinda hate clinchers and prefer either tubular or tubeless tires on my wheels. FMB or Veloflex baby.

NealH
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Location: Triange, NC

by NealH

I like the 4000's better too. There is no perfect tire, as with everything else its always a compromise. But the 4000's, with proper tire pressure (which means under 100#) will provide a great ride, endurance and performance. Like a good fitting shoe, why change?

Bellcurve
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:20 pm

by Bellcurve

I put my GP4000Ss back on with latex tubes this time. The latex helped the GPs in regard to fine chatter, from chip seal roads for example. No complaints in that department. They still felt just as fast as PRO4s.

But some of the old problems remained, hitting larger road discontinuities like patched road areas where the new asphalt had settled a bit still results in a bigger and harder bounce than other tires I use. And they still feel dead.

They do make great trainer tires. Used an old pair over two winters (about 4000 miles each) and had no tread separation in either one. Every other old road tire I've used indoors separates after two or three months.

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Juanmoretime
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by Juanmoretime

I used the Michelin Pro 4's all last year and jumping into this year too. They worked great with an expectable tire life, to me anyway. The batch of the last two that I had developed the dreaded Pro 4 crack. They worked fine on the front but once rotated to the back developed a crack along the left side of the tire that went all the way around the tire. They were the last of what I had stashed so it was time to break out the 4000S's I bought after drinking the aero/rolling data on them. With all the rain we have been having I have been able to test them both wet and dry. So far the 4000S works very well wet or dry and roll very fast. They also go on the rim easier that the Pro4. The ride is not as compliant but almost not worth mentioning since the ride to me does feel good just not as good as the Pro4.
RESIDENT GRUMPY OLD MAN.

DWatkinsBSB
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Location: London

by DWatkinsBSB

Been riding 4000s for the past 4 years and love them. That being said, new wheels came with Yksion Pro tyres which I was going to sub in for 4000s BUT decided not to.

Will go with the Pro4 comp for a 80 grams saving (over the 4000s). Will be riding supersonic tubes also. Slightly concerned with punctures.

Will report back in a few weeks with my experience with this tyre-tube config.

:beerchug:

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spookyload
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by spookyload

I just installed a set of 4000s II tires last week. I can honestly say they are a much better ride than the 4000s.

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

The revelation for me, even after years on 4000s, was knocking 10 PSI out of the front and back. I'm not a small guy, but 100 in the front and about 110 in the rear has been terrific - especially for our technical crit circuit. And god knows I need all the cornering help I can get!

Ran Pro4 for a while. They were rather sticky and not a bad tyre at all. Just found a shorter life span than the 4000s. Would not hesitate in using them for race tyres again though.

sawyer
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by sawyer

Tinea Pedis wrote:The revelation for me, even after years on 4000s, was knocking 10 PSI out of the front and back. I'm not a small guy, but 100 in the front and about 110 in the rear has been terrific - especially for our technical crit circuit. And god knows I need all the cornering help I can get!

Ran Pro4 for a while. They were rather sticky and not a bad tyre at all. Just found a shorter life span than the 4000s. Would not hesitate in using them for race tyres again though.


Yes - that is about right. 100 f and 105 r and I am 76kg

PR4s are a bit on the fragile side in comparison.

Vittoria clinchers are overrated by tub wannabees IMO, tubulars are good tho
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by Weenie


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