Ouch!

Well at least if you buy a branded name a pay lots for it,it will at least have warranty and so on.

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COLNAGO C59 MATT BLACK

VOLVO FH 12 480 BHP

On the face of it, true. But having dealt with a few Cervelo & Cannondale warranty claims, I wonder what value that is.

Look at the cost disparity between Cervelo's S3 and Specialized's S-Works Venge. Both are cutting edge frames that are used at Protour level, yet there's a £1000 premium on the S3 despite it being Chinese built and the Venge being Taiwanese built. If anything the differential should be reversed. When it comes to warranty, the Specialized has a proper warranty that is honoured with zero fuss - if it is faulty they replace it. The same cannot be said of Cervelo unfortunately, one has to kick and scream on behalf of the customer to get a fair decision.

Replica yes as it states....

Im not up on the legal mumbo jumbo.... BUT can someone legitmately paint a well known companys logo on a fake product and even resell it legally??? Replica or not.. someone has painted Pinarellos name on it and is selling it for profit.... If I was Pinarello Id be pulling the sue card!!

It depends: has Cicli Pinarello, S.p.A, registered the name "Pinarello" as a trademark in the UK ?
They may also want to register the name "Dogma" and "Prince" (although the latter may be difficult)
If so, yes they can sue.

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Exp001

And after all these discussions, people still think: Dogma Rip offs = all Chinese carbon frames (you can get on ebay).

This is really sad.

Ultimobici, let's not focus on the cost but more on the product. It's like a restaurant owner saves cost by cutting the dish washing staff so dishes are not thoroughly cleaned. The cost difference is small (say $0.2 per dish) but having the previous customer's spit in your mouthis huge. Running a tight QC system may not cost THAT much (let's say $30 per frame, just a random guess) but the end result is huge.

Another thing is, many people on ww seem to be accomplished engineers or tech-types, but they refuse to understand or accept the fact that the commercial world works in certain ways. Advertisement and sponsorships simply work. Without Tour champs riding Pinarello's across lines and without the extravagant Eurobike/Interbike showcases, Pinarello could very well be some obscure little brand nobody wants to knock off, and probably sells 500 frames a year instead of 300,000. We are all affected by it, and no body can escape. We would all like to think we are the pure meritocrats who get the objectively best bike free of gimmicks and hype. But we can't escape hype... Anyone care to show Cervelo's R&D budget v. marketing budget each year (including sponsorships, shows, etc.)? I bet if Pinarello were to cut the Dogma's price by 50%, they'd be losing money on this model (even though there appears to be an abscene profit if you compare with the OEM price). Too many things need to be done and they cost money. Whoever these guys choose to knock off, will certainly have spent huge amounts to sponsor pro teams, etc.

Sorry enough heavy duty stuff for one post. Carry on...

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Fast falcons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3mTPEuFcWk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
twitter: Falco_bike
Facebook: falco.bike

and you seem to forget that not all 'fakes' are the same, some are bad some are as good as the 'real' thing

Using someones registered and established trademark and logotype on a copy is a criminal offence in quite a few EU countries.
If Italy had a goverent they would be the ones to take Pinarellos complaint to the EU.
Even bringing in a fake LV handbag into France is an arrestable offence. Just read the 'we will shoot anyone with fake French stuff on site' signs at the airport!

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Technical Artisans

UPDATE
I was told by the store manager that he spoke to the Colnago rep and the bike is in the process of being sent back to Italy. It seems Colnago is in the process of replacing my broken frame. i will keep you updated on the service i'm getting.

Be interesting to see how long they take to repair. My C40 got sent back and it took months!

Check this one out, a new low http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/9045 ... rince.html

where is this infamous "newspaper" thread?

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There is nothing lighter than a hole

nice looking paint jobs on some of these fakes.

Chinese government has started taking a more serious stance with Chinese fakes. They now have industries to protect.

I can't see why somebody would go to sooo much effort to reproduce molds, design the copy paint jobs and decals, and put the whole thing together. The amount of effort required to then make as much as if the product was just painted matt black off an open mold.

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signature deleted by the Admin.

Paint jobs look top notch!

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www.freddibnahheritagecentre.co.uk

I'm sorry to make you sad and I'm sorry if this appears as trolling but do you have specific info that the quality is really so bad on these frames?? I think all of us understand the economics of a global marketing program. I also I agree that replication of a brand lands somewhere on tacky, unethical, or illegal depending on geography - no issue with that - but where are the facts that the production on the pinas is really so poor? I think that people order these things with certain expectations and for the most part they are exceeded. I know mine were with both chinese frames I ordered (not knock-offs). Not at all trying to troll here I'm actually quite interested if you have the information because I haven't seen it specifically addressing the dogma/prince frames....

I'd also love to hear what phallenthoul has to say on this...