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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:57 am 
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Location: New York City
dereksmalls wrote:
I bet the majority of people that moaned about STI and othe lever shifting system and are moaning about electronic shifting aren't still on downtube shifters.


good point...


i think all the nay sayers should just keep the noise down. their really is no good argument against electronic shifting because mechanical is still offered and not replacing it, yet. it is a non issue.

here are some components weights from bike rumor

Component Weights by Group (in grams)

Dura-Ace Di2 Ultegra Di2 Dura-Ace Mech Ultegra Mech
Rear Der. 225 270 166 189
Front Der. 124 165 67 89
Levers 255 313 379 447
Brakes 293 317 293 317
Cranks 735 790 735 790
Cassette 163 209 163 209
Chain 252 267 252 267
Other 172 151 94 94
TOTAL 2219 2482 2149 2402

di2 levers lose a lot of weight - i wonder how much campy levers will weigh, they are at 313g atm.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:02 am 
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let me clarify. a ww dura-ace di2 build will consist of

stock di2 levers/front-rear deraileurs with custom aftermarket battery pack

campagnolo claims of having the lightest grouppo are valid BUT the weight savings come from the crankset/brakes.

we will know more when official weight's for the eps derailleurs/shifters/battery/cables are released


elviento wrote:
Can't seem to make sense of it.

So weight wise, Campy SR EPS < SR Mechanical < DA Mechanical < DA Di2 ?

If that's the case, why is "ww electric build shimano dura-ace is still lighter"? Di2 is apparently the HEAVIEST of the 4?

spartan wrote:
where are the ww moderators. certain posters contribute ZERO to this forum but are still have a license to post utter
nonsense.


now back on topic.

bicycling made a interesting observation on weight and clarifies why campy did not release individual weights for the parts.

"In fact, if Campy's weights are accurate, Record EPS may be lighter than Dura Ace mechanical. It's interesting, however, that Shimano's Di2 penalty—DA Di2 versus DA mechanical; Ultegra Di2 versus Ultegra mechanical—is less than 100 grams. Campy's EPS penalty is more than 200."

for a pure ww electric build shimano dura-ace is still lighter. gen2 di2 will be release late next year.lighter battery + new slimmer cables the weight penalty of going electric will be null.

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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:02 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:12 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:48 am 
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If the Campa plug that they took their time to get the new group "race hardened"
is true it would be very interesting.
A campy group that does not lock up the shifting when you're stressed and need it most
would defiantly be on my shortlist for next year.
I have been thinking of going DA now when they go 11 but this would be much
simpler with all the wheels etc.
Can't wait!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:18 am 
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Location: Bristol uk
Life is short - find enjoyment where you can, and respect where other people find enjoyment. You only pass this way once,if you have the money to buy expensive things why not? you cant take it with you.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:42 am 
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Velonews just published their first impressions of riding EPS.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/11/ ... oup_197494

From a WW point of view the fact that the brains of the system are in the battery pack may be the stumbling block to major weightless as well as concealment in the frame. We'll see!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:49 am 
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The throws are very short, as was expected, but the high spring force is more akin to a cable-actuated system and there's a very tactile and audible click each time a button is depressed
I do like it,but dont get why they say it will still feel like cable shifting with a high spring force,and the clicking. So why would you want to change?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:45 am 
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Campag says faster. Tester says slower.

"The front shift from small to big front chainring when sprinting out of saddle over the top of a hill that I love so much on Di2 is also possible with EPS, but the shift is slightly less powerful and quick than with Shimano’s electronic front derailleur.

When pedaling moderately hard out of the saddle when cresting a hill in the small chainring, if you hit the left EPS upshift lever, it pushes the chain right up to the big ring, although it is sometimes slightly delayed while it waits for the next chainring shift ramp to come to the top.

But when I was sprinting full out in the small ring over the top of a hill and hit the upshift button, there was a considerable delay before the chain went went up. It still shifted and gave me that feeling of a hand sling and an immediate gap over my proximal riding partners, but the delay was a bit more than ideal."

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:39 pm 
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That is a pretty typical rider impression of Di2, as well. The problem is that, from the perception of the rider, the shift for the mechanical group is 'complete' when the physical motion of the hand is complete, which isn't true. The electric groups are objectively faster, they just 'feel' slower.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:15 pm 
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Zinn wasn't saying that EPS is slower than mechanical Campy, rather that EPS is slower than Di2.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:03 pm 
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VTBike wrote:
prendrefeu wrote:
toofine wrote:
I find it incredibly amusing that in your posts, you state your opinion as if it is fact, and state your views as if they are held by all. Great that you measure yourself and others on how fast of a rider you are.. I'm sure you win lots of trophies for that.. I don't know how old you are - but clearly at whatever age your at, you have not figured out that life is not just about getting to a finish line, but how you got to that finish line. Its different for everyone, and you should respect that. People will respect you more if you can bring that level of maturity to a conversation. THe way you post now, its like talking with a 10 year old.

Life is short - find enjoyment where you can, and respect where other people find enjoyment. End of story.


+111...It's getting really old now..


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:11 pm 
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the review are mixed. but honest.

bikeradar review

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... t-12-45511

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:38 pm 
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To ask the inevitable question: has anybody heard if Campy will bring out TT shifters, too?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:47 pm 
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jever98 wrote:
To ask the inevitable question: has anybody heard if Campy will bring out TT shifters, too?

Yes, they're in development.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:39 pm 
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To me, the development of electronic shifting is an impressive (albeit logical and inevitable) development. Aside from the cost factor, my abiding concerns (in no particular order) are: obsolescence (because electronics evolve so rapidly), servicing (especially in far northern Washington State where I live) and equipment failure (although, based on what I've read, that doesn't seem too likely). Given all of that, plus the fact that for my riding level I can't really justify the purchase, I'll stick with mechanical shifting for the near-term (and maybe long-term) future: it works, its been perfected over decades, it can be fixed with plenty of readily-available spare parts and it gives a certain historical consistency to bicycle riding. Nonetheless, I'd take the EPS Super Record in a nanosecond if offered it!

KAC


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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:39 pm 


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