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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:25 pm 
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Has anyone used this yet? Is it a really distinct improvement over the current version?

Front shifting is the one thing that bugs me about mechanical Campagnolo groupsets. I hear that the pull ratio of the new version is different, so ostensibly you would need the new 2015 left lever body as well as the new front shifter. I guess you could buy the lever body alone and fit the older carbon lever.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:19 pm 
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I am just interested...what is your problem with the current FD?
Mine works just perfect...I even do not see a reason for EPS, I do not see much of a diference.


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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:19 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:38 pm 
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No need to quote above


It's OK, but the lever requires a fair amount of movement with a moderate amount of force to shift to the big ring. Annoying in some situations (e.g. with cold & numb fingers), and just not as quick, fluid and intuitive as the rest of the shifting. I'm aware of doing it as a premeditated act, whereas the rear shifting is practically subconscious.

I agree with you about not seeing much need for EPS, but the one thing that EPS does provide is completely effortless front shifting. Mechanical rear shifting is already close enough to effortless as to make little difference.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:47 pm 
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I think current front shift shifting on Campy is superb. Maybe yours isn't tuned very well. 3 light clicks with one super quick finger swipe and I'm on. The pre 2011 11spd rings are slightly less quick but still nice. Haven't used the new 2015 stuff yet but is suspect it will be even better with more finely tuned tooth profiles, the new derailleur and accompanying lever. I don't think I'd try to mix and match a 2015 derailleur with a pre 2015 shifter.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:56 pm 
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Thinking about it, I think it's the throw distance of the lever I don't like so much. For me it is just slightly outside what feels like an optimally comfortable finger movement while keeping my hand in the same position on the top of the hood. I feel as if I am slightly twisting my whole hand to the left rather than just moving a couple of fingers. I have medium/small hands though, maybe it's not an issue with big hands.

As I say though, it's fine, just not impossible to improve.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:35 pm 
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The new 2015 "revolution" shifters/derailleurs are not backwards compatible according to campy.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:41 pm 
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No need to quote above

Yes, because of the smaller lever throw they have different internals. But with the current ergos it is possible to buy individual lever bodies (without the carbon lever and the rubber hood). So you would just need to get the 2015 left lever body and fit the carbon lever and hood from the old lever body. It would look like a pre-2015 ergo but function as a 2015 one.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:03 pm 
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They maybe going back to something like QS. The record 10 speed QS front mech moves with little imput from the the QS shifter. One short throw and up the chain goes, slickest thing I have ever used it even shifts smooth when putting out high power. It down shift cleaning when standing up on the pedals powering up a hill. So 2015 kit may not be backwards compatible but it looks like they are looking backwards for inspiration.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:32 pm 
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Location: UK
We can confirm absolutely (because we have tried it ...) that 2015 shifters are not compatible with pre 2015 mechs, F or R.

We are currently fragging shifters to see which parts are interchangeable, as is our habit - we are one of the few businesses that still sell all of the individual parts of UltraShift shifters (because we break down full shifter bodies to make this possible).

We can also confirm that 2015 hoods are differently lugged on the reverse side to pre-2015 hoods and they are not interchangeable. If the lugs are trimmed off, they move about too much on the lever body and can cause snagging on levers 2 and 3.

There are some similarities to QS in terms of different action but the key thing is that the gate in the derailleur cage is very different in profile and the inner and outer cage plates rum much closer to the chain in a correctly set-up system. This massively reduces the chances of over-throw (especially to the inside) even at high applied torques and low cadences.

Torque at the chainring can be significantly higher (double-figure percentages in the case of the 50-34 and 52-36 combinations) at the same shift success rates against the 2014 version, provided that the 2015 chainsets and rings are used. We have factory data as well as direct experience to uphold this.

Performance is slightly improved with pre 2015 chainsets but not significantly so other than in the case of SR RC and later 2014 OT chainsets that use the RC14 rings ... these chainsets appear to give a sort of half-way house improvement - this is from our tests not from factory data - we assume this is as a result of the ring spacing being slightly different in 2015 chainsets.

One of the key advantages of EPS remains the front up-shift performance, provided the FD mounting is rigid and durable enough to allow that force to be applied - it still out-performs any mechanical shift system available at low cadences and / or high torques at the chainring. The applied force at the chain available is almost double what an average rider normally exerts on shifting and this is one of several factors that affect front shift speed, accuracy and success rate. 2015 mechanical is very clearly better than pre 2015 but still not up there with EPS.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:49 pm 
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Thank You very much for a great post.....as always! :thumbup:
Great to have somebody like You at this forum. :welcome:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:04 am 
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Hi graeme_f_k, thanks for the great info. Slightly off topic, but apart from the crank spider do you know if there are any differences 2014 to 2015 for Super Record EPS? Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:19 am 
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Yes, the SR Front Der. has a new carbon cage.....the one which You can see on the mechanical FD.
Record keeps the alu old one :noidea:

No other changes for EPS in 2015. For 2016 there probably will be some minor changer in the interface.....charging battery throught interface(?)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:48 pm 
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Good info @Graeme_f_k.

I'd like to make a point or two, and ask a couple questions if I may.
You say that EPS is so powerful on the front shift that it shines when your going from small to big or vice versa under high torque and/or low rpms. It would be my thought that regardless of whether you're using mechanical or electric, those shifting conditions would not constitute good shift conditions and should be avoided regardless of whether you're on electric or mechanical. For me, it's intuitive to just ease the power the instant I shift and all is good, you don't miss a beat. I don't know... it seems that what EPS will do will help those who shift poorly in the first place but not do much for those who already have become so in touch with their mechanical shifting that it basically is an extension of your thoughts. The poor shift habits and conditions you describe brings to mind the newbies to biking who race down a hill and start immediately up another hill. They keep pedaling in their highest gear up the other side till they almost fall over then think "wow, I should probably be in my little ring now", and shift. Bad form, and EPS may be able to handle this better than mechanical, but it certainly can't be good on the system. So I can seeto it might help those folks, but so far for me I have not found it be faster at all. I'll keep testing it though as you make refinements.

The other thing is, and this is maybe the one area that I really do see some benefits with the electric stuff, is programmability and compatibility backwards and forwards. For instance, I get why 2015 mechanical shifters wont be backwards compatible and why 2014 shifters won't work with the 2015 stuff. No problem there. Things change. But with electric, it is just a button that sends a signal which instructs a derailleur to move a certain distance, etc. So, even though the new front derailleur for EPS will kind of mirror the changes in the new mechanical version, wouldn't it be great if existing EPS shifters do not need to change at all, but rather a simple reprogramming of the "system" would allow them to work with the new derailleurs? And same goes for backwards compatibility moving forward. So long as the same basic mechanical functions are being performed with the only difference being the amount the derailleurs move per button push etc., this should all be able to be programmed as needed. Or maybe that's how it is right now? I don't know, but if it isn't, it should be.

For me personally, EPS or Di2 is not what I want in a bicycle as it becomes too much like taking your new high tech car to the dealer for a reprogram when anything goes wrong. And if you're going to go electric, there's got to be a lot more benefits to it than there are now, because quite frankly, I'm not seeing any benefits over mechanical at the moment. And those benefits would probably lie in its flexibility in programming for different situations. In fact, as we enter what... 6 or so years since the introduction of Di2 I am noticing early adopters who sang the praises of electric (because it was new) now going back to mechanical for their next purchase. Nothing worse than a component failing miles from nowhere with nothing you can do because it's an electrical fault. Then to get back and find you need a whole new component, and wait, maybe a new processor or whatever, cuz the new stuff is no longer compatible with that old electric stuff, is quite annoying and expensive. That's the situation the latest convert back to mechanical I know of was facing.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:26 pm 
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Location: Aix en Provence
Calnago wrote:
Good info @Graeme_f_k.

I'd like to make a point or two, and ask a couple questions if I may.
You say that EPS is so powerful on the front shift that it shines when your going from small to big or vice versa under high torque and/or low rpms. It would be my thought that regardless of whether you're using mechanical or electric, those shifting conditions would not constitute good shift conditions and should be avoided regardless of whether you're on electric or mechanical. For me, it's intuitive to just ease the power the instant I shift and all is good, you don't miss a beat. I don't know... it seems that what EPS will do will help those who shift poorly in the first place but not do much for those who already have become so in touch with their mechanical shifting that it basically is an extension of your thoughts. The poor shift habits and conditions you describe brings to mind the newbies to biking who race down a hill and start immediately up another hill. They keep pedaling in their highest gear up the other side till they almost fall over then think "wow, I should probably be in my little ring now", and shift. Bad form, and EPS may be able to handle this better than mechanical, but it certainly can't be good on the system. So I can seeto it might help those folks, but so far for me I have not found it be faster at all. I'll keep testing it though as you make refinements.


You are over thinking this. The small to big ring shift of EPS is just better than mechanical, under any circumstances. As I said before it's a luxury item and has downsides but this is the one area where there is just no discussion: it is better.


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Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:26 pm 
  • 6.00 € (including 19% VAT)
  • 1021 components by Campagnolo


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:22 am 
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He isn't over thinking it Lionel. Many agree including me. So what if EPS has fractionally better shifting in front. Its a balance sheet of pro and cons that make up a groupset selection. I don't like electrical shifting either. Nibali just won the TdF on mechanical Super Record. Front shifting was apparently good enough for him over 2000 miles of racing against the top racers in the world...some of whom were on EPS.


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