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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
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Location: Aix en Provence
I am not sure a new frame will solve the pb. The Campy PF30 cups just do not work. You can convert your frame to BSA or use a BB30 crank.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:39 pm 
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LionelB wrote:
I am not sure a new frame will solve the pb. The Campy PF30 cups just do not work. You can convert your frame to BSA or use a BB30 crank.


Converting BBright to BSA? Please, tell me how.

What came to my mind, i could ask my friend to manufacture right side cup with longer inner part, so the contact area wit thw frame is greater. Do You think it could work? I am not sure about it....


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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:39 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Remind we again why any manufacturers thought press fit bottom bracket cups, etc., would be a good idea? That's a rhetorical question by the way. Despite all the marketing spin, I'm pretty sure the answer ultimately boils down to "cheaper to manufacture".

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:45 pm 
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This can be done by permanently gluing carbon spacers around a normal threaded BSA BB. This converts the frame to BSA and in your case probably woids the warranty as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:09 pm 
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LionelB wrote:
This can be done by permanently gluing carbon spacers around a normal threaded BSA BB. This converts the frame to BSA and in your case probably woids the warranty as well.


Good point. I will ask my friend to make a threaded adaptor for the right BSA cup. The adaptor wiould be screwed on on the BSA threaded cup. The modified cup should be press fitted to the BBright BB as any other press fit cup.
The inner part of the adaptor would be like 15mm long.... so it should have 3 more times larger contact area than standard Campa cup.
This could help. :noidea: Right?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:09 pm 
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don't know if you have the BBright drawings - might help

http://www.bbright.net/bbrightdrawings.pdf

since there is no "stop" in the shell, the only issue I see is how to end up with the correct overall width for the cups. you need to measure the overall width with the campy NDS adapter in place, and deduct that from 95mm, which is the overall width across the cups you need to end up with. That will give you the amount the cup projects on the DS. I'm not sure how the DS cup ends up in all this. It needs to project enough that the retaining clip is useable. Hope this makes sense.

edit. looked at the photos again, & see that the DS cup is outside the shell.

Now what I'm not fully understanding is the amount of cup engagement on the DS. The BBright shell may only offer 13mm of engagement (see drawing) which would appear to match the Campy adapter, so I don't see where the "3 times more" engagement is coming from.

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


Last edited by bikerjulio on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Location: Aix en Provence
Permon wrote:
LionelB wrote:
This can be done by permanently gluing carbon spacers around a normal threaded BSA BB. This converts the frame to BSA and in your case probably woids the warranty as well.


Good point. I will ask my friend to make a threaded adaptor for the right BSA cup. The adaptor wiould be screwed on on the BSA threaded cup. The modified cup should be press fitted to the BBright BB as any other press fit cup.
The inner part of the adaptor would be like 15mm long.... so it should have 3 more times larger contact area than standard Campa cup.
This could help. :noidea: Right?

It may help but anything that is press fitted may end up moving out again IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:23 pm 
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bikerjulio wrote:

Now what I'm not fully understanding is the amount of cup engagement on the DS. The BBright shell may only offer 13mm of engagement (see drawing) which would appear to match the Campy adapter, so I don't see where the "3 times more" engagement is coming from.


Thank You for the drawing of BBright BB! It helps a lot!

Your question regarding the 3times more contact area. I measured Campa BBright cup, actually the contact surface on the cup is ONLY 4mm long!!!!!!!!
So, 13mm available in BB is 3times more :idea:

I made a quick draft of my idea, see bellow. I think that it could work quite well using an ordinary BSA right cup + my adapter.

I have already contacted Cervelo and they told to send my frame back. I do not want to do it because:
1) I am quite sure I will have the same problem with a new one (using campa cups)
2) I do not want to spent my time stripping and re-assembeling the frame again
3) I am sooo afraid of getting back the HORRIBLE 2013 Silver paitjob. I love the 2012 black/red

So, I am going to try this machineshop adaptor first, if it does not work, I will send the frame out.

Guys, what do you think about all of this?


Attachments:
File comment: Adaptor draft
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WP_000237.jpg [ 104.84 KiB | Viewed 687 times ]
File comment: R3
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WP_000078.jpg [ 140.42 KiB | Viewed 687 times ]
File comment: R3
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WP_000080.jpg [ 141.42 KiB | Viewed 687 times ]


Last edited by Permon on Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:35 pm
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Here's my update:
I recently bought a SRAM PF30 to BSA adapter and a set of Super Record UT BSA screw in cups. These went together ok (as you'd expect) and I had a look as to why LionelB would be having issues with binding of his cranks using this setup. There's an internal web inside the SRAM adapter which rubs on the Record crank axle. A 26mm reamer took a skim off the plastic web and now all's good. Will be assembling it into my EVO today.
A few other things worth noting:
My SRAM BB30 bottom bracket, which was fitted with the Loctite process in came out ok with no damage to the frame. It initially took a fairly sharp tap with a hammer, using a headset removal drift inside the BB. Once it started to move out, it came out ok. No heating required.
I weighed my crank/BB options.
1) SRAM PF30 BB with FSA SLK light BB30 Cranks and 53/39 rings, wavy washer...699 grams.
2) Super Record Compact cranks, Specialties TA 53/39 rings, UT PF30 adapters, bolt, clip, wavy washer...710 grams.
3)Super Record Compact cranks, Specialties TA 53/39 rings, SRAM PF30 to BSA adapter, Super Record BSA UT cups, bolt, clip, wavy washer...727 grams.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Location: Toronto
Master Permon,

I reviewed your technical drawing homework and give it an A.

I deducted a point for not drawing the section view 100% correctly, but a good effort nonetheless.

And I don't see why the "Permon adapter" would not work :)

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:23 pm 
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Posts: 573
bikerjulio wrote:
I deducted a point for not drawing the section view 100% correctly


I know what You mean, I draw it like this on purpose, it is easier to understand the idea for people who do not read drwaings often.

I hope it will work. The larger contact area should help to keep it in place + loctite 7649/609.
As far as I know, FSA uses the "same wave washer system" and their cups stay in place. I quess it is just because of the larger contact area.
We ll see soon. (I will take pictures of the adapter and will post the results)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 1969
Location: NoVA/DC
If machining those cups, I would consider making the effort to machine a few grooves on the outside surface of the cup to better hold the Loctite. Also consider how and when the cup will be screwed to the adapter- before the adapter is pressed, or after? If after, maybe following campy's Loctite222+handtight method would be better than torquing it down, you'd risk breaking the Loctite free.
Sram's bsa adapter has flats inside to hold the adapter in a vise to install the cups prior.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Guys, today, I took the right cup out of the bottom bracket. I checked the drawing and specs for BBright system (check the drawing which is linked in some previous posts).
It states that the surface for coupling cup and frame should be 13mm on each side of the bottom bracket.

Well, I took a slide caliper, set 13mm on the caliper and took some pictures. You can see that the BB is totally out of specs at one point. It is only like 7-8mm not 13mm as it should be.
If this "weak" point was situated at the lower part of the BB, maybe it would be fine. But it is at the upper part of the BB which is important in supporting the cup when pedalling.

Maybe this is the reason why the right cup is traveling out of the frame.....

I also took a picture of the cup. The contact area on the cup is only 4,5mm.

Tommorow, friend of mine will be manufacturing the adapter I wrote about earlier (it will be done acc. to the Cervelo drawing and Campagnolo cups measuring. Te adapter should increase the coupling area 3times. Maybe it will work.
Otherwise, that frameset will be sent back to Cervelo.


Attachments:
File comment: BB out of tolerance
WP_000259.jpg
WP_000259.jpg [ 146.5 KiB | Viewed 598 times ]
File comment: Campagnolo BBright press fit cup
WP_000252.jpg
WP_000252.jpg [ 147.48 KiB | Viewed 598 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:26 pm 
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I hereby dub thee Permon The Persistent. I commend you on your efforts but at this point I'd say it's the manufacturer's fault and be sending it back. You've given it more than a good college try. Good luck.

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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:26 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:04 am 
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Location: Toronto
Kind of agree with Calnago.

If Cervelo can't get their own standard right - who can?

Your 2nd pic kinds of sucks in that I cannot see what you are measuring on the cup.

Did you try to measure the diameter of the BB shell at a few points?.

BTW those calipers suck too. I got a nice digital set for about $20. How TH are you going to get the accuracy you need with those things?

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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