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 Post subject: Re: Zipp Free Hub Drag?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:59 am 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
Posts: 5699
Location: Phoenix Arizona
If it's the previous gen hub, make sure you have the very thin spacer / washer still running between the freehub and hub body.

Very frankly, you shouldnt have seen much difference at all with just a lube swap.

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 Post subject: Re: Zipp Free Hub Drag?
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:59 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Zipp Free Hub Drag?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:56 pm
Posts: 775
PezTech wrote:
If it's the previous gen hub, make sure you have the very thin spacer / washer still running between the freehub and hub body.

Very frankly, you shouldnt have seen much difference at all with just a lube swap.


Thanks PezTech, the washers still there. Swapping out the grease for lube made a difference, I'd guess it's about 50-70% better than it was, it's not spinning freely -clearly- as there is friction from the pawls but it's an improvement. I'd got two 900 discs at the moment (old one went out of true) and they where both the same before fiddling and afterwards the difference is enough that I'd happily do it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Zipp Free Hub Drag?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:56 pm
Posts: 775
Also just to add the 900 freehub seems to have more resistance than the new Zipp road hubs. I guess it's just a cost issue that stops them upgrading the discs to the same system? Would be great if they did then I could swap freehubs between my Zipps more easily incase any break.


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 Post subject: Re: Zipp Free Hub Drag?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:00 pm
Posts: 383
Location: London, United Kingdom
I just finished cleaning my 188 (removed freehub, kept cassette on, remove pawls and spring pawls, cleaned with soapy water, apply 1 tiny drop of Zipp grease from the Zipp syringe on each pawl and a tiny amount on the ratchet ring, put everthing back).

But it appears that the hub doesn't spin nicely. I hold it in my hands, give it a spin, and I notice that my old cheapo Shimano RS10 spin for longer. I can see they are obstructed, when they stop - they stop in a non linear and smooth way. Have I missed to lub anything else? Have I tightened the clinch nut too much?

About the clinch nut, the below is taken from the Zipp support documentation:

To return to the factory-set pre-load, tighten the non-drive clinch nut until you just feel it touch the bearing. Then turn it counter-clock-wise 1/8 of a revolution to back it off the bearing. Once the quick release is loaded, the clinch nut will contact the bearing and provide a small amount of pre-load.

I followed the insutructions, I definitely have the play (even after closing the QR btw).

Is this because I used the Zipp grease rather than oil?

Also, where can I find a good 10W-30 oil for the 188? Mobil 1 stuff is not easy to find in the UK...


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 Post subject: Re: Zipp Free Hub Drag?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:56 pm
Posts: 775
First off I have used a lightweight race engine oil because it's thinner. I think this is fine although I need to re-apply it which isn't a problem because I regularly have my hubs apart to service & clean them.

I don't think freewheel drag is that much of an issue and it depends how seriously you want to take it. I have changed all the bearings to full ceramic (both races & balls), removed the Zipp O rings that sit on the outside edge of the hub dust seals and obviously the lighter oil. I'm not really interested in peoples negative opinions on do this either from a cost or reliability stand point other than to say I wanted less drag in hubs & less freewheel drag and it has made a massive difference.

This isn't something I would recommend to the average person though, it does need to be looked after properly and to do that you have to have a good understanding of the components.

I hope that helps you :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Zipp Free Hub Drag?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:04 am
Posts: 444
Location: USA
Ruds wrote:
First off I have used a lightweight race engine oil because it's thinner. I think this is fine although I need to re-apply it which isn't a problem because I regularly have my hubs apart to service & clean them.

I don't think freewheel drag is that much of an issue and it depends how seriously you want to take it. I have changed all the bearings to full ceramic (both races & balls), removed the Zipp O rings that sit on the outside edge of the hub dust seals and obviously the lighter oil. I'm not really interested in peoples negative opinions on do this either from a cost or reliability stand point other than to say I wanted less drag in hubs & less freewheel drag and it has made a massive difference.

This isn't something I would recommend to the average person though, it does need to be looked after properly and to do that you have to have a good understanding of the components.

I hope that helps you :thumbup:


Ruds,

Nice upgrade modification. Did you press fit all your bearings? With all ceramic, it would seem the important thing would be the initial alignment, and then the delicate pressing of the bearing. It would also be interesting to see how they hold up to the shock that comes from the road. What brand bearing did you use?


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 Post subject: Re: Zipp Free Hub Drag?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:56 pm
Posts: 775
I bought high quality. Bearing presses for it, if you have the correct tool it is easy, with out the correct tool or a less than ideal tool you will chip parts off the bearing and possibly break them.

I have not had any problems with the wheels yet, the full ceramic bottom bracket bearings didn't last long at all but I suspect this was just a poorly sealed bearing cup to blame, I will try again with it. I've forgotten then name of where I bought them and in the future I will go direct to a bearing manufacturer/retailer because any cycling related bearings have ludicrous mark up on them. The rest of the world do not pay this much for bearings....

Just to be clear this is not a fit and forget 'upgrade', they are FAR more expensive, fail more easily/ sooner than metallic bearings and require maintainance. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who just wants some 'bling'!

HTH


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 Post subject: Re: Zipp Free Hub Drag?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:00 pm
Posts: 383
Location: London, United Kingdom
A quick update. I took the 188 apart and cleaned everything again. I say 'again' because the previous time I didn't clean the hub bearing shields and put some grease on it instead! Now they spin nicely! So it was all my fault.
Well done to the Zipp engineers for building a light but robust hub that it's very easy to service.


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