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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:26 pm 
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Chris Boardman reviewed a Gios carbon/aluminum frame equipped with Zipp 303 tubulars. Basically he said that all manufacturers of carbon rims should ride their creations down the steep side of a mountain and maybe they would rethink what they are doing. For a ride that incorporates alot of descending, he said that the 303s HAD TO GO!!!! The problem was the uneven braking surfaces naturally inherent on carbon rims.
I think this is an example of light weight just for the sake of, with little regard to practical use.
Don't get me wrong-I think that carbon is a great material for many applications related to cycling, but if any of you read his article you will notice that his concerns are valid and pragmatic. He not only questions the Zipp tubulars, he also wonders if Gios is just another company with a carbon frame on the market that really never put any thought into why people want carbon and what is the best way to incorporate it into bicycle design. He also wondered if carbon is suitable for stems, as they need to flex a little because of the torque and strain it has to deal with and carbon does not bend-it breaks. any thoughts? 8)


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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:26 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:51 pm 
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Boardman is an awful reviewer. Take his reviews at face value. I have read other reveiws by him bashing other carbon wheels. It seems that he does not like carbon at all (except Argon which is the only positive input I have seen from him on any product). I get the impression that he does not really like any type of innovative products. He seems to be a typical "old school" kind of guy. I myself have had very little problems decending on my zipps. The braking surface, while not as smooth as aluminum, is good. The only problem I do have is braking when its wet going down a mountain, but that is a problem with all carbon rims. Also, it is difficult to get a perfect braking surface form carbon and that goes with any carbon rim on the market. Most of the reveiws form Procycling and Cycle Sport are a joke any way. Reviews should be from people who have spent some time on the products not just a 40 mile test ride.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:00 pm 
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Just a thought about carbon stems: I think it's stupid to use one. The aren't lighter than Al/Ti/Mg and they aren't safe at all. I think whan you want to race with your bicycle you need a safe handlebar, stem and seatpost - and brakes of course


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:08 pm 
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OK I RESPECT BOARDMAN BUT YOU MUST EXPLAIN WHY THE BEST PRO-RIDERS USE THE CARBON RIM..... :twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:13 pm 
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JTC wrote:
I get the impression that he does not really like any type of innovative products.


And this assumption is based on someone who rode the Lotus bike...yeah ok.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:27 pm 
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I remember another review, about how he hated De Rosa King, I think he rated as worst carbon/alu bike ever...

But he loves every single Merckx thou because it supposedly reminds him of old Gan days.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:35 pm 
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I'm being hypocritical here by saying this, but people memories are very subjective. (If memory serves me right) Boardman never said he disliked the King, I believe he just said it wasn't that great for how expensive it was, but he did comment on it's beauty. He also disliked the Merkx he tested, very much I think, and mainly because of its price. Ironically, he lambasted the carbon wheels in that test (they had an aluminum rim) because they were heavy and useless. He often comments on lightweight wheels as well, seeing as how he owns a pair, but often states that although he really likes the wheels, he believes they are not a suitable upgrade for people who are less-than-pro because of their price.

By the way...the comment about old-school vs. Lotus bike was spot on, I was thinking the same thing myself...not to mention read some accounts of the Boardman vs. Obree battles and see how "old school" boardman is in his training.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:44 pm 
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Delpi wrote:
OK I RESPECT BOARDMAN BUT YOU MUST EXPLAIN WHY THE BEST PRO-RIDERS USE THE CARBON RIM..... :twisted:


Many pros use carbon rims indeed, but most of them weigh 360g or more. Only low profile carbon rims can be lighter. I think Zipp 280 are to light. The best of them for uphill races are the lightweights. Carbon is very good for it's lightweight and aerodynamica. The pros also use them because they get them from their sponsors. But ok, carbon is good. But they are still problems that have to be solved - like braking in wet conditions.
I really like light alu rims, but I hate that everyone stop producing light alu rims, like Ambrosio Crono, Fir Isidis,... Those are all sub 350g with good rim braking. It should be good in wet conditions.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:54 pm 
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About the Carbon stems, I use one every day (I am not lucky enough to have a seperate race bike) and it as strong as my old steel quil-style stem. Super stiff too. I think that if you can find a good price on them, from a reliable company, they arn't so bad.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:34 pm 
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Ok, you guys got me on the "old school" Lotus thing. My point is the same as someone stated above; all reveiews are subjective. I cannot do anything more than laugh at these magazine reveiws b/c the said "pro" uses the equipment for maby one ride. A good reveiw cannot be done on most equipment in one ride. I have had many a product I had a bad impression of on the first try, but after more use fell in love with. If you want a real reveiw find someone who has used the equipment for a while.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:30 pm 
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520 Dan wrote:
I'm being hypocritical here by saying this, but people memories are very subjective. (If memory serves me right) Boardman never said he disliked the King, I believe he just said it wasn't that great for how expensive it was, but he did comment on it's beauty. He also disliked the Merkx he tested, very much I think, and mainly because of its price. Ironically, he lambasted the carbon wheels in that test (they had an aluminum rim) because they were heavy and useless. He often comments on lightweight wheels as well, seeing as how he owns a pair, but often states that although he really likes the wheels, he believes they are not a suitable upgrade for people who are less-than-pro because of their price.

By the way...the comment about old-school vs. Lotus bike was spot on, I was thinking the same thing myself...not to mention read some accounts of the Boardman vs. Obree battles and see how "old school" boardman is in his training.


I couldnt remember much since i read those reviews at barnes & nobles magazine stand.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:32 pm 
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Now i remember obree was only one who could beat Boardman ocassionaly in track. Now he was riding a homemade bike with parts from washing machine :) unlike boardman who rode mega million dollar lotus.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:34 pm 
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The way I see it, if pros like using it, it must be for a reason. If they sucked they would use something else, regardless of being fined. Armstrong did it with ADA's, so did Ullrich, and countless others. If they sucked as bad as he claimed then he's either an idiot, or just got a bad set.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:43 pm 
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Armstrong and Ullrch used Lightweights.
Many bad Zipp 303 sets, I like carbon, only braking is a disadvantage (in wet weather), but I would never buy Zipp 303s.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:58 pm 
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Your right, they used ADA's. But either way if the 303's sucked that bad then CSC wouldn't have used them. Maybe Zipp cherry picks the wheels for them and most do suck. I don't know. Anyone who has 303's care to comment?

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