HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 700x23 vs 700x25 tires
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:43 am
Posts: 50
Hi new here but hoping to ask a question.

Been biking for 2 years and upgraded (don't ask) to a Specialized Secteur Sport a little over a year ago.

Been wanting to upgrade it some but too new for a full new one, I've just waited. On a ride I got a flat and needed new tires as well (very worn). Decided to swap out the 25's for 23's since I needed new ones anyway.

They are faster but feel much less stable. I expected less but these are much less. Had a bad crash when I hit some debris. I love the improved climbing, acceleration and everything else but the stability scares me some. Actually a lot considering the crash.

Any thoughts? Get used to it? Adjustments? Wheels? Or don't put those tires on a low end bike??


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: 700x23 vs 700x25 tires
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:13 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:29 pm
Posts: 767
Location: Springdale, AR
Get some Seca-RS 28c tires...a pair off the bay was like $58 with shipping. No loss in speed and you will feel better from start to finish.

_________________
Specialized Allez 06' "Rain Bike" 21.50lbs
Neuvation F100 11' "Road Bike" 16.80lbs
Specialized Tarmac Pro 11' "WW Bike" 14.25lbs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: 700x23 vs 700x25 tires
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:43 am
Posts: 50
StuTheWeak wrote:
Get some Seca-RS 28c tires...a pair off the bay was like $58 with shipping. No loss in speed and you will feel better from start to finish.

28c? Seems real wide. What makes them special? My understanding, amateur albeit, was that thinner was faster and better for climbing?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:09 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Sweden
NJBiker72 wrote:
My understanding, amateur albeit, was that thinner was faster and better for climbing?


It depends on your weight and the quality of the roads you are riding on

Cervelo co-founder Gerard Vroomen said.
"In general, I think everybody should be riding wider tyres all the time"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cer ... in-belgium


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:01 am
Posts: 35
Location: SF Bay Area
"They are faster but feel much less stable."

Of course you are entitled to describe your experience the way you experience it, but your statement has a lot of room for interpreatations. Did you time yourself and determine they were faster? Did the decreased stability cause you to crash? I doubt both. I like Michelin Pro Race in 23 or 25. Either work great and the 25 ones seem just a bit more cushy and are fine with less inflation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: 700x23 vs 700x25 tires
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:42 pm
Posts: 3914
Location: lat 38.9677 lon 77.3366
There are more difference between specific tire brands to say 23 or 25's are faster, smoother etc. Also greatly depends on the road conditions and rider. Each size has it's forte

_________________
WW Velocipedist Gargantuan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:29 pm
Posts: 767
Location: Springdale, AR
NJBiker72 wrote:
StuTheWeak wrote:
Get some Seca-RS 28c tires...a pair off the bay was like $58 with shipping. No loss in speed and you will feel better from start to finish.

28c? Seems real wide. What makes them special? My understanding, amateur albeit, was that thinner was faster and better for climbing?


Secas actually run a little narrow.

23c actually measure 23mm.
25c tires measure 24mm once mounted.
28c will measure 27mm once mounted.

So, they aren't that wide. If you air them up to 130psi...they roll really, really well. I'm running a 23c on my front wheel...just cause I had a new one that I wanted to expend...not that I like the way it feels.

23c feels really twitchy compared to even a 25c IMHO. I'll never buy another 23c tire for as long as I live. 28c is really heads above better than 23c and slightly better than 25c. I prefer to run a 28c on the rear and a 25c on the front given a choice. I honestly believe if I mounted a 28c on the front...I'd never go back to 25c tires again. I have to find that Seca dealer on the bay and buy some new 28c tires :)

_________________
Specialized Allez 06' "Rain Bike" 21.50lbs
Neuvation F100 11' "Road Bike" 16.80lbs
Specialized Tarmac Pro 11' "WW Bike" 14.25lbs


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1230
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
I had 28's on my hybrid. But I would take a 25 most of the time. 23's aren't bad either though. You have to find the right tire with the right compound. And don't go running into gravel and cobblestones :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 8:14 pm
Posts: 305
Hi - a few things.. Everything the other posters are saying is true.. but whats really missing for me is what kind of rider you are, and what kind of rides your doing. Your bike apparently comes with 25c tires stock, which tells me its more of a recreational bike. If your more of a recreational rider, that tire just may suit you and your bike better. That being said, I've only run 23c tires, and can't imagine going to 25c or larger. I'm 200lbs, 6'2, and I've never felt unstable on my tires. I ride paved roads, which often are pretty beat up after a bad vermont winter. Lots of potholes, and often I hit patches of gravel/debris. I've ridden on the occasional dirt road as well.

My guess is that you need to improve your bike handling -- what kind of debris was it? How did you negotiate it? What tire pressure were you running? (this can be crucial). Especially on a road bike, knowing how to shift your weight and steer through debris is crucial. You can't just hit gravel and steer as if you were on a hybrid bike -- everything needs finessing. Most people I know find 23c as the sweet spot for tires, so there is no reason you should not be able to ride them and feel comfortable.

So, my answer largely falls into the category of "you need more practice, and time on narrower tires".. That of course goes with saying that if you are trying to ride 23c tires at 80psi or under, or are on dirt roads/gravel, you need to either up your air pressure, and/or rethink your tire choice.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:43 am
Posts: 50
VTBike wrote:
Hi - a few things.. Everything the other posters are saying is true.. but whats really missing for me is what kind of rider you are, and what kind of rides your doing. Your bike apparently comes with 25c tires stock, which tells me its more of a recreational bike. If your more of a recreational rider, that tire just may suit you and your bike better. That being said, I've only run 23c tires, and can't imagine going to 25c or larger. I'm 200lbs, 6'2, and I've never felt unstable on my tires. I ride paved roads, which often are pretty beat up after a bad vermont winter. Lots of potholes, and often I hit patches of gravel/debris. I've ridden on the occasional dirt road as well.

My guess is that you need to improve your bike handling -- what kind of debris was it? How did you negotiate it? What tire pressure were you running? (this can be crucial). Especially on a road bike, knowing how to shift your weight and steer through debris is crucial. You can't just hit gravel and steer as if you were on a hybrid bike -- everything needs finessing. Most people I know find 23c as the sweet spot for tires, so there is no reason you should not be able to ride them and feel comfortable.

So, my answer largely falls into the category of "you need more practice, and time on narrower tires".. That of course goes with saying that if you are trying to ride 23c tires at 80psi or under, or are on dirt roads/gravel, you need to either up your air pressure, and/or rethink your tire choice.



Well I've only been riding a couple of years. Weigh about 190 now but put on a few recently. Should be lighter.

Tire pressure is 120. LBS told me keep it at max for climbing. I do lots of climbs. Recreational/endurance rider. Very hilly area. All paved roads but plenty of potholes.

I love the 23's. They feel better. Just a little less stable. Maybe its me just getting my legs back. I did not notice it before the accident. Plus my cyclocomputer was not working after they trued the wheels, so I think I may have taken the turn faster than I thought I was.

Anyway, this was why my #1 option was to get used to it.

But one follow up question for you. When you said the bike was more recreational, I agree. But I wouldn't mind it being faster. I can mostly keep up with my friends on better bikes. Can often more than keep up, but don't mind a little extra edge until I actually ugrade.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 8:14 pm
Posts: 305
NJBiker72 wrote:
VTBike wrote:
Hi - a few things.. Everything the other posters are saying is true.. but whats really missing for me is what kind of rider you are, and what kind of rides your doing. Your bike apparently comes with 25c tires stock, which tells me its more of a recreational bike. If your more of a recreational rider, that tire just may suit you and your bike better. That being said, I've only run 23c tires, and can't imagine going to 25c or larger. I'm 200lbs, 6'2, and I've never felt unstable on my tires. I ride paved roads, which often are pretty beat up after a bad vermont winter. Lots of potholes, and often I hit patches of gravel/debris. I've ridden on the occasional dirt road as well.

My guess is that you need to improve your bike handling -- what kind of debris was it? How did you negotiate it? What tire pressure were you running? (this can be crucial). Especially on a road bike, knowing how to shift your weight and steer through debris is crucial. You can't just hit gravel and steer as if you were on a hybrid bike -- everything needs finessing. Most people I know find 23c as the sweet spot for tires, so there is no reason you should not be able to ride them and feel comfortable.

So, my answer largely falls into the category of "you need more practice, and time on narrower tires".. That of course goes with saying that if you are trying to ride 23c tires at 80psi or under, or are on dirt roads/gravel, you need to either up your air pressure, and/or rethink your tire choice.



Well I've only been riding a couple of years. Weigh about 190 now but put on a few recently. Should be lighter.

Tire pressure is 120. LBS told me keep it at max for climbing. I do lots of climbs. Recreational/endurance rider. Very hilly area. All paved roads but plenty of potholes.

I love the 23's. They feel better. Just a little less stable. Maybe its me just getting my legs back. I did not notice it before the accident. Plus my cyclocomputer was not working after they trued the wheels, so I think I may have taken the turn faster than I thought I was.

Anyway, this was why my #1 option was to get used to it.

But one follow up question for you. When you said the bike was more recreational, I agree. But I wouldn't mind it being faster. I can mostly keep up with my friends on better bikes. Can often more than keep up, but don't mind a little extra edge until I actually ugrade.


Sounds like your spot on.. I think you just need more time. 120lbs tire pressure is doable, but alot. I used to ride at 120 as well, but have recently found the advantages of dropping to 105 to 110. Its counter intuitive, but there is a point where more air pressure leads to increased resistance. If you search this site on tire pressure, you will get tons of info. I suggest you drop down to 105 - 110 psi. It will give you better cornering, and better shock absorption. 120 psi is rock hard for clinchers - another reason you could have wiped out. Also - what kind of tires did you put on? Hopefully you were able to get something decent.. While i'm not an authority on tires, I think that its one of those items not to skimp on.

As far as the last paragraph you wrote - you never actually asked a "follow up question".! Just because your bike is more recreational, no reason you can't make it faster, or especially, get faster yourself. To "make" your bike faster, best upgrades you can make are a seat that is comfortable, handlebars/stem that have proper reach, and then lighter wheels/tires. It occurs to me that if your bike feels unstable, it may not fit you correctly! Watch some you-tube videos on proper seat height and fore/aft adjustment. The fore/aft part is often overlooked, but should not be. Once you get positioning to a good starting point, meaning, your legs are mostly extended at the bottom of the pedal stroke, and the front of your knee falls in line with the pedal axle when your crank is at 3:00 -- then you can fine tune to what is comfortable. How do you feel the fit of your bike is??

It sounds like you are just getting into riding, so the best thing you can do is just ride.. get used to your bike, how it handles, etc... 23c tires should be the choice for you, as far as I can tell from your riding and goal descriptions.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 2323
Location: eh?
Does anybody actually care exactly what tires we are talking about? Seems to me that is the starting point. For a big guy 25 over 23 if you have a choice. I run both on various setups. For any sketchy situation I prefer the 25s.

_________________
swinter wrote:
Mr.Gib got it right


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 7376
Location: San Francisco, CA
I switched to Grand Bois 26c tires before a bike tour in May and liked them so much I've been using them continuously since. I run at 80 psi and weigh in the 125 lb range. The increase in comfort relative to 23c @ 110 psi was immediate and obvious, handling is fine, and I'm clearly faster than I was before the tour based on Strava segment times (of course, the riding I did on the tour was mostly responsible for that... but the tires aren't slowing me down, apparently). They're supple and light and have minimal tread, with a nice shape that doesn't mess with their handling feel.

No way you can detect speed differences between tires without careful measurements. Instead you're interpreting more vibrations = faster, less = duller and slower. It's hard enough to tell when you're riding with a flat or the brake is rubbing, let alone subtle differences in speed from 10% difference in tire width.

_________________
http://djconnel.blogspot.com/
Fuji SL/1
\


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:20 am
Posts: 1356
I agree. I think the racing tyres = 23c is on its way out ever so slowly. The roads around here are so bad that I can't ride on 23s now. 25 is becoming my preference and I've got a bike where I'm experimenting with 28s.

_________________
"Step forward the climber and all those who worship at the altar of lightness" - R. Millar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:05 am
Posts: 48
Here in Austin TX, I ride about 90-95psi. I'm 175lbs, ride a 25c Maxxis detonator on the front and a Specialized low end 23c on the rear. If I were to ride them at 120psi I get beat up like crazy on these less than perfect roads. It's mostly a form of chip seal around here, so there's no speed benefit to 23s. I am not too particular about tires though, just prefer to ride less pressure unless I'm going out on the highway 360 loop here. 90psi makes a WORLD of a difference. 120psi is just not enjoyable in most areas.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:24 pm 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Attermann, Bing [Bot], dereksmalls, Jdrsvin and 38 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Compass Tires. Any experiences?

in Road

whydobearsxplod

0

392

Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:32 am

whydobearsxplod View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. BMC Gran Fondo Tires

in Road

ajmojave

4

442

Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:21 am

ajmojave View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Tubeless tires with Campagnolo rims?

in Road

eifelschleicher

0

418

Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:41 pm

eifelschleicher View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Light wheels can accomodate Veloflex 700x22 tires?

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Road

athletic

17

1203

Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:20 pm

barsook77 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Weight of Grand bois Extra Léger tires

in Road

basilic

1

350

Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:29 am

HillRPete View the latest post


It is currently Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:32 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB