Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Galleries NEW FAQ Contact About Impressum
It is currently Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:41 pm
Recently the board software has been updated and there are some known bugs/failures:
- Avatars are currently not being displayed ✔ FIXED
- Tapatalk connection is currently broken ✔ FIXED
- Avatars cannot be uploaded ✔ FIXED

Please note that we will soon do some changes in WW board template design in case to get a fully mobile/desktop responsiveness board!
If you find more errors please post it here: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=139062


All times are UTC+01:00





Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:31 am
Posts: 408
Location: Santa Barbara
I had a rather interesting customer come into the shop today- he cited a friend in saying that Campagnolo 11 speed chains don't wear in the traditional manner, being that they don't stretch- and that therefore traditional chain wear indicators are ineffective at warning the user that thier chain has worn out. He furthered his assertion in saying that the only sign that the chain needs to be replaced is when it breaks. He suggests preventative maintenance then, a new chain every 1600-2000km.

Given that I've got 6000km on my chain and customers with similar reports to mine- this opinion if true is great cause for concern

What say you WW crowd?

_________________
17 and stupid, bear with me


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:04 pm
Posts: 96
Location: UK
9100 km here, and everything perfect.

_________________
Under the Sun - a thriller for weightweenies with bike loving main character on Kindle here


Top
   
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:12 am 


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia / The Hague, Holland
Scottybee wrote:
What say you WW crowd?


I've taken note of your sig (no offence) :wink:

_________________
2010 Guerciotti Whisper
2007 Bianchi 928L (update Sep '11)
1999 Bianchi MegaPro 25CrMo4


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:00 pm
Posts: 48
I clean it thorougly after every ride. I think I did about 5k on my previous one

_________________
http://www.cyclingtorrents.nl - Torrent Tracker dedicated to broadcasts of racing


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:50 pm
Posts: 11
Next time your "interesting customer" comes in, give him a tee shirt that says "Example of the Dunning Kruger Effect".


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:42 pm
Posts: 3915
Location: lat 38.9677 lon 77.3366
Mmm..... there is some valid things to consider. I'm sure Dave can give a better answer. First chains don't stretch so much as the rollers wear. Campy chains will be doing damage to your cassette sooner then the traditional wear indicators will indicate. So yes you can put on mega miles but at the increased cost of wear to your cassette. This issue is not peculiar to 11 speed chains BTW. It also does not mean you get a shorter chain life then other chains, IMO Campy chains still give the best durability. You need to measure the distance between the rollers with calipers to see exactly whats going on. Being rather lazy and knowing from past experience how long MY chains last I just replace them based on milage. In MY case about every 1800 miles. In season that means a bit less then every two months :shock: Keep in mind that I'm a big guy, put out lots of watts and do lots of climbing. I would suggest a search on this topic, I recall Dave giving exact measurements as well as an ambitious schedule of swapping chains to give maximum use of your chains and cassette

_________________
WW Velocipedist Gargantuan


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:31 am
Posts: 408
Location: Santa Barbara
lcoolb wrote:
Scottybee wrote:
What say you WW crowd?


I've taken note of your sig (no offence) :wink:

None taken, any lack of knowledge on my part is compensated by ability to learn

_________________
17 and stupid, bear with me


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 8:47 pm
Posts: 900
Location: durp durp durp
rustychain wrote:
I recall Dave giving exact measurements as well as an ambitious schedule of swapping chains to give maximum use of your chains and cassette


I've been doing the chain rotation usage that DaveS put forward in good detail for the last couple of years.

It worked on using 3nr chains across 1nr cassette with wear being put sequentially across the 3nr chains for around 1500km, then re-used for another sequence between 1500-3000km overall usage, and then again for another 3000-4500km usage.

The idea is that you prolong the longevity of the cassette buy always using a fresh chain & then using a suitably worn chain on a suitably worn cassette so that the chain & cassette meshed well enough to get good performance.

It does work really well - you get optimum wear out of your kit & you don't end up throwing out chains semi-worn or replacing cassettes early because they're slipping when new chains are fitted.

If you add in running an A bike & B training bike, you can always run the fresh & newest chains / cassettes on the A bike & then run out the older kit on the training bike & in bad weather when you might otherwise get annoyed that you were using your nice new kit in bad weather.

Here is the science bit ;)

DaveS wrote:
Any chain with a .5 inch pitch will mesh perfectly with a Chorus cassette. What causes the chain to become longer is wear between the pins and the bushings formed into the inner side plates. In that regard, Campy is better than any brand that I tested, by a large margin. There's more to chain wear than just elongation, however. If you use a precision 12" rule to measure the elongation, you may find very little, even after 4-6,000 miles, with a Campy chain, but that does not mean that it's not shot. Roller wear can also affect the cog profile and cause some of the most-used cogs to skip with a new chain, even if the chain has far less than .5% elongation. I found this out by using a Campy 10 chain for 6,000 miles with a new cassette. The chain showed a true elongation of only 1/16 over the entire length, or about .15% elongation, but the rollers were shot. The OD was about .005 inch smaller and the ID about .010 inch larger. The side clearance was also nearly twice that of a new chain. A new chain skipped on the most-used 19T cog.

If you really want maximum cassette life, alternate the use of 3-4 chains and change each one before the roller spacing increase from it's original .200 inch to .215-.220 inch. Shimano or KMC chains will measue in the .210-.215 inch range when new, but the .015-.020 inch increase in roller spacing still applies. Shimano or KMC chains may elongate up to four times faster than a Campy chain, so elongation should also be monitored. Alternate chains before reaching .25% elongation.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia / The Hague, Holland
Scottybee wrote:
None taken, any lack of knowledge on my part is compensated by ability to learn


LOL, smartass :thumbup:

Actually, the whole alternating chains thing to increase longevity is a myth. A chain of model A will last X km, period. Alternating between N chains of model A, will just take each chain N times longer (in time) to reach its limit of X km. No magic there...
See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

_________________
2010 Guerciotti Whisper
2007 Bianchi 928L (update Sep '11)
1999 Bianchi MegaPro 25CrMo4


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:30 pm 
Offline
Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

lcoolb wrote:
LOL, smartass :thumbup:

Actually, the whole alternating chains thing to increase longevity is a myth. A chain of model A will last X km, period. Alternating between N chains of model A, will just take each chain N times longer (in time) to reach its limit of X km. No magic there...
See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Yes, and no.

You left half of the equation out of the equation.

Ciao, ;)

_________________
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia / The Hague, Holland
Care to elaborate on that?

_________________
2010 Guerciotti Whisper
2007 Bianchi 928L (update Sep '11)
1999 Bianchi MegaPro 25CrMo4


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:42 pm
Posts: 3915
Location: lat 38.9677 lon 77.3366
Switching chains is to reduce wear on cassettes not chains.

_________________
WW Velocipedist Gargantuan


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:52 pm 
Offline
Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Thank you Rusty.

Since this is about preventing unnecessay wear and tear, how would you go about it?

Ciao, ;)

_________________
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia / The Hague, Holland
rustychain wrote:
Switching chains is to reduce wear on cassettes not chains.


That makes sense. Alternating chains would effectively spread out (delay) the worn-chain-on-cassette effect, is that what you mean?

_________________
2010 Guerciotti Whisper
2007 Bianchi 928L (update Sep '11)
1999 Bianchi MegaPro 25CrMo4


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Posts: 2529
Campy chains do not wear in the same manner as most other brands - both 10 and 11 speed. Campy chains may have as little as 1/4 the amount of elongation as other brands. Elongation is properly measured with a precision scale - not a chain checker that mixes roller wear with elongation. If a chain checker is used on a Campy chain, it will primarily report roller wear, not elongation.

I've used a Campy 10 chain for 6,000 miles and measured about .15% elongation, but the rollers were shot and the side clearance nearly twice that of a new chain. That chain wore a new cassette enough to cause chain skip on my most-used cog, when a new chain was installed.

Campy chains can be easily measured for both elongation (with a precision rule) and roller wear, using calipers with internal tips. The space between the rollers will be about .200 inch when new. I alternate chains when the spacing increases to .215-.220. A really shot chain will meaure about .240 inch.

A chain should no break because it is worn. That idea is nonsense.


Top
   
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:08 am 


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 Next

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Campagnolo 11 speed crank w/ 9 speed chain Compatability

in Road

rgamble

6

439

Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:09 am

icenutter View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Is Campagnolo 11 speed just harder to get right than 10 speed was?

[ Go to page: 1 2 3 ]

in Road

AJS914

30

1689

Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:00 pm

Willem View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Can I use a SRAM 12 speed chain on my ......

in Road

uraqt

4

808

Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:52 pm

dynaserve View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Best 11 speed chain for Dura Ace Mechanical???

[ Go to page: 1 2 ]

in Road

Titanium22

27

6918

Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:12 pm

salesguy View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Powertap C1 and Campagnolo 10 speed drivetrain

in Road

ChristianB

8

319

Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:02 pm

ChristianB View the latest post


All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: baldy, Bing [Bot], cyclespeed, dukezpol, Ebruner, ernestkus, victorduraace, Yahoo [Bot] and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited