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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 1392
Location: Geneva
Despite all their testing, I still only have about a 75% success rate w the fusion 3s, but one up and running, they last a long time and ride nice IMHO


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:58 pm
Posts: 305
Location: Lancaster, UK
just done about 150 miles on the new Bontrager R3 tubeless. Very impressed. Lighter than the Hutchinsons and good grip. Went up no problem. And available in a proper 25mm (measured) unlike the pseudo 25mm Intensive.


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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:38 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm
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How much lighter? We need details


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:58 pm
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Location: Lancaster, UK
two 23mm R3 are 266g and 259g

one 25mm R3 is 283g (the other is fitted, and I forgot to weigh that one)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:28 pm
Posts: 371
petromyzon wrote:
Have to say my opinion is one of frustration - people obsessed with airtightness are causing the tubeless manufacturers to laminate thick butyl layers to the inside of the tyre. This is what is making them much heavier and much slower than leading non-tubeless tyres!


Amen to that. I wish Vittoria/Challenge/Veloflex would make a version of their open clinchers (or Conti's Supersonics) with tubeless beads but no butyl lining (aka "tubeless ready").

The MTB world has realised that UST tyres are ridiculously heavy and that standard tyres with sealant are much better. How long will it take for the road market to come to the same conclusion?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:22 am 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 296
Location: FL
The bead design is critical for road tubeless due to the high PSI needs of a road tire. Not really the same thing. A lot of the new tires are already designed around sealant being required. As of right now I feel like the Bontrager R3 is the best tire easily available. The R2 is a great tire as well for a little less.

Also I have emailed Vittoria urging them to make a tubeless gumwall corsa or pave style tire in 25-27mm. Retro/Pro look with modern technology. I can keep dreaming.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:25 am 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 296
Location: FL
kulivontot wrote:
How much lighter? We need details


More info and some weights here http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/03/08/jus ... ad-system/


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:47 am
Posts: 682
Location: Tucson, AZ
Besides your inner weight weenie, why would you not run sealant? The tires aren't flat resistant just because they are tubeless. Pick up some debris and you are busting a tubeless bead to install a tube. Put a half scoop of sealant that will add 20g, but get flat protection. I haven't had a flat in seven years on my MTB since going tubeless with sealant.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:28 pm
Posts: 371
NWSAlpine wrote:
The bead design is critical for road tubeless due to the high PSI needs of a road tire. Not really the same thing. A lot of the new tires are already designed around sealant being required. As of right now I feel like the Bontrager R3 is the best tire easily available. The R2 is a great tire as well for a little less.

Also I have emailed Vittoria urging them to make a tubeless gumwall corsa or pave style tire in 25-27mm. Retro/Pro look with modern technology. I can keep dreaming.


Exactly. If it weren't for the need for a specific tubeless bead for road pressures we could just use normal road tyres, like we do with MTB. As it is we're stuck with the road equivalent of UST. What I'd like to see is an otherwise normal open tubular (or very good clincher) with a tubeless bead, which relied on sealant for airtightness rather than a butyl liner.

I've emailed Continental begging them to put a tubeless bead on a Supersonic. They replied... but didn't give anything away!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:32 pm
Posts: 56
Privateer wrote:
petromyzon wrote:
Have to say my opinion is one of frustration - people obsessed with airtightness are causing the tubeless manufacturers to laminate thick butyl layers to the inside of the tyre. This is what is making them much heavier and much slower than leading non-tubeless tyres!


Amen to that. I wish Vittoria/Challenge/Veloflex would make a version of their open clinchers (or Conti's Supersonics) with tubeless beads but no butyl lining (aka "tubeless ready").

The MTB world has realised that UST tyres are ridiculously heavy and that standard tyres with sealant are much better. How long will it take for the road market to come to the same conclusion?


oh,yeah! A tubeless ready Veloflex! THAT would be great


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:58 pm
Posts: 305
Location: Lancaster, UK
it makes you wonder what tyre companies do, in terms of R&D?

We've had clinchers and tubs for, what, forever....? And now tubeless comes along, the first big development for yonks, which you could see happening from MTB, (where any sane person has junked tubes), and STILL some tyre companies don't have a product. Schwalbe have something due (they say) but Conti, Vredestein, Vittoria, Michelin, and the rest haven't bothered to come up with something.

As it stands, the best lightweight tubeless option is from Bontrager. Fancy that. Not the most renowned maker of road tyres it's true but at least they've got something out there (and it's pretty good IMO too).

If you read about rolling resistance, all the articles go on about internal friction between the tube and tyre as the main factor. So let's hear it for tubeless! It's the holy grail! No recreational cyclist is going to bother with tubs, and so tubeless has the potential to be a tough, supple, grippy, low CRR tyre. I've already made the change (and won't be going back) but I could do with a wider range of tyres please, and cheaper.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:28 pm
Posts: 371
Agree completely.

Any tyre manufacturers on WW?

I'd like to hear their take on this.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
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Location: Geneva
I love my tubeless for their abiliy to run lower pressures w/ out flats, and I've only gotten 1 flat in the last 2 years with mine.....but I took out my tubs last night and damn ain't nothing like a tub :D


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm
Posts: 172
Maddog: I'm sure that all the major players have functional road tubeless tyres in the labs, it's just economics as to when they bring them out. The tyres are expensive to start with, if people are returning them in large numbers because they won't hold air perfectly then that will just make shops less likely to get stock, prices will stay high, etc. etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm
Posts: 596
Nobody makes them because customers don't know what the hell road tubeless is. Ask about "road tubeless" on your next group ride and I guarantee somebody will say "Uh, are you talking about tubulars? I don't want to mess around with glue." Everybody knows what a tubular is because it's "what the pro's ride."
Add in the dis-incentive for top tubular producers to cannibalize their own high-end product, and you've got the 1-player market of road tubeless that you have today.


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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:35 pm 


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