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 Post subject: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:21 pm 
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Location: NorthEU
As we constantly see builders like Parlee, that used to make frames in USA, Lightweight frame from Asia instead of Germany aso aso.
Prices seems to be increasing or still rather high for most of these brands.
What do you guys who look at premium frames feel about this?

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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm
Posts: 1080
This thread seems xenophobic and a duplicate of 80000000 other useless threads. Try limiting your question to a specific brand and you will get far more useful responses.


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:25 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:08 pm
Posts: 160
The question is: there are companies that used to manufacture in the US or Europe, and have outsourced to Asia without a corresponding drop in price?

1. It may help to discuss specific companies. Parlee and Lightweight are two examples.
2. I think the quality of the product and the customer service matters. Has the quality dropped? Has customer service improved? What else contributed to the non-drop in price?

Market plays a role I suppose: if there is demand at a certain price point, then the price will remain unchanged. It also looks like product making is split into two parts: the design and actual manufacture. People seem to care, or are only aware of, where it is designed (i.e. Apple products designed in California).

As China gets stronger, one of the next places where manufacturing will take place will be Africa. US seems, at least on the surface, oblivious to Africa, but China has been consistently investing in Africa, notably in its infrastructure.


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:32 pm
Posts: 60
wheelsONfire wrote:
As we constantly see builders like Parlee, that used to make frames in USA, Lightweight frame from Asia instead of Germany aso aso.
Prices seems to be increasing or still rather high for most of these brands.
What do you guys who look at premium frames feel about this?

I wouldn't pay Pinarello/Colnago money for any Asian made frame when I can buy a handmade Time with a lifetime warranty. I actually wouldn't pay over $1,500 for ANY Asian made frame. If i ever bought an Asian frame it would be a Giant as they make like 80% of other brands frames who hide behind fake Italian heritage (like Pinarello).


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm
Posts: 99
I'd love to see a 100% made in Japan carbon frame with a 3 Rensho brand name.


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:51 pm
Posts: 140
MyM3Coupe wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:
As we constantly see builders like Parlee, that used to make frames in USA, Lightweight frame from Asia instead of Germany aso aso.
Prices seems to be increasing or still rather high for most of these brands.
What do you guys who look at premium frames feel about this?

I wouldn't pay Pinarello/Colnago money for any Asian made frame when I can buy a handmade Time with a lifetime warranty. I actually wouldn't pay over $1,500 for ANY Asian made frame. If i ever bought an Asian frame it would be a Giant as they make like 80% of other brands frames who hide behind fake Italian heritage (like Pinarello).


Have you been hurt in the past by a Pinarello owner? Or a Pinarello itself?
Looks like you can't miss an opportunity to spill your hate on the brand...
Are you paying for other people's bikes?
Has anyone asked you to pay one?

Luckily there are so many bike brands on the market, anyone can find one that he/ she likes.
Enjoy your bike and let other people enjoy theirs, regardless of your tainted view.


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm
Posts: 937
antonioiglesius wrote:
The question is: there are companies that used to manufacture in the US or Europe, and have outsourced to Asia without a corresponding drop in price?

1. It may help to discuss specific companies. Parlee and Lightweight are two examples.
2. I think the quality of the product and the customer service matters. Has the quality dropped? Has customer service improved? What else contributed to the non-drop in price?

Market plays a role I suppose: if there is demand at a certain price point, then the price will remain unchanged. It also looks like product making is split into two parts: the design and actual manufacture. People seem to care, or are only aware of, where it is designed (i.e. Apple products designed in California).

As China gets stronger, one of the next places where manufacturing will take place will be Africa. US seems, at least on the surface, oblivious to Africa, but China has been consistently investing in Africa, notably in its infrastructure.


i have a Parlee. one that is made in asia. the price for their higher end US made frames were out of reach for me...so i bought the next best thing. when it comes to customer service, Parlee has always been a stand up company regardless of which frame you owned, you got treated as though you bought their high end frame.

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- AX Lightness Vial EVO D + DA9070 + Enve SES 3.4 carbon hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee ESX + DA9070 + THM SRM PM + Enve SES 6.7 CK hubs
- Independent Fabrication Ti FLW + Campy SR11 + Enve 3.4 CK hubs


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Posts: 392
Location: The land of Oz
:D

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Last edited by beanbiken on Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Posts: 911
Location: FIN
snowdevlin wrote:
MyM3Coupe wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:
As we constantly see builders like Parlee, that used to make frames in USA, Lightweight frame from Asia instead of Germany aso aso.
Prices seems to be increasing or still rather high for most of these brands.
What do you guys who look at premium frames feel about this?

I wouldn't pay Pinarello/Colnago money for any Asian made frame when I can buy a handmade Time with a lifetime warranty. I actually wouldn't pay over $1,500 for ANY Asian made frame. If i ever bought an Asian frame it would be a Giant as they make like 80% of other brands frames who hide behind fake Italian heritage (like Pinarello).


Have you been hurt in the past by a Pinarello owner? Or a Pinarello itself?
Looks like you can't miss an opportunity to spill your hate on the brand...
Are you paying for other people's bikes?
Has anyone asked you to pay one?

Luckily there are so many bike brands on the market, anyone can find one that he/ she likes.
Enjoy your bike and let other people enjoy theirs, regardless of your tainted view.


I think you miss the point.

If I pay for Versace top of the line piece, I do not expect I DEMAND hand made in Italy. I expect extraordinary design & quality. I demand made in Europe. Versace "made in China" is fake , not Versace. Super premium product DOESN'T COME FROM FAR EAST. IT'S MADE IN EUROPE.

Imagine Patek Philippe or Blancpain watch "Designed in Zürich, made in Korea".... Unimaginable, isn't it ? So WTF you accept "Pinarello made in China " ????

From far east comes products made in gazillion of pieces and widely available on ebay :mrgreen:

If company is printing on frame "made in Italy" , and on bottom bracket I see sticker "made in Taiwan"... something is wrong here. Not with Taiwan, with the brand.

History of outsourced frame manufacturing for famous brands is older than carbon fiber, isn't it ( Mr Colnago, Mr Pinarello ? ;) ).

Personally I don't see any reason to justify 3x higher price for the product of similar performance, manufactured by same supplier just because of "famous heritage" and fake "made in Italy" decal ( yes, pinarello use decals, not painting on most ( nomen omen ) of their frames ) . As I wrote many times ; we're talking about sport equipment, performance per price ratio, all the rest is BS.

But if we narrow this discussion just and only to performance of the product, then who cares where it is made ? If design, performace & quality are fine, I'm fine with it. ( I skip here strictly economical factor, it's completely different story ).

PS, yes I do have Pinarello in my stable too.

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I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Posts: 392
Location: The land of Oz
:D

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Ahhh, coffee & carbon


Last edited by beanbiken on Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm
Posts: 573
wheelsONfire wrote:
As we constantly see builders like Parlee, that used to make frames in USA, Lightweight frame from Asia instead of Germany aso aso.
Prices seems to be increasing or still rather high for most of these brands.
What do you guys who look at premium frames feel about this?


Parlee still makes some of their frames in the USA.

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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:36 am
Posts: 421
Holy shit this thread is stupid and overtly racist.

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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:33 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm
Posts: 99
Anybody else remember Italian framemakers in the '90s putting their labels on Russian built Ti frames?


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Posts: 1547
Location: NorthEU
glam2deaf wrote:
Holy shit this thread is stupid and overtly racist.


Are you kidding or are you lost in marketing BS?

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Ax Lightness Vial EVO D
Paduano Racing Fidia
Open *UP*
https://opencycle.com/showcase/the-xplo ... eelsonfire


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:54 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Asia VS EU/ USA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:22 am
Posts: 1699
Location: Zion
Build a wall somewhere.
Make someone else pay.

Oops, sorry! Wrong thread on similar subject.

SMH.

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