HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 322 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 22  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:16 pm
Posts: 617
how can they call that 'aero'
oh wait its because no one know what 'aero' is, there is no standard just marketing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:19 pm 


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:16 pm
Posts: 617
as for steerer angles, Why does no one do 650c wheels anymore??? then smaller riders could have a frame that fits, with no toe overlap and decent handling rather than make them ride wheels that are to big and have a head tube angle that makes the handling horrible


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 pm
Posts: 1940
Location: Getting dropped
bikedoc wrote:
as for steerer angles, Why does no one do 650c wheels anymore??? then smaller riders could have a frame that fits, with no toe overlap and decent handling rather than make them ride wheels that are to big and have a head tube angle that makes the handling horrible


If you're in a situation where toe overlap is an issue you've got bigger problems to deal with. Namely, your body about to hit the pavement.

_________________
- Zipp rims will break if you look at them too hard
- R-Sys wheels will spontaneously explode
- The ZG crankset will never, ever exist
- Everyone needs Lightweights, even if they're fat and old
- Parts actually made of metal are SO 10 years ago


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:18 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Lyon
andy2 wrote:
With all due respect to Scott and Trek engineers and marketing depts - but producing pictures on the effects of trunctuated airfoils at 90°, even with diffetent yaw angles... Seriously, the 1930s called and they want their science back!

It's like being blinded by science by the mighty 1972 Chevy Vega Kammback!
I mean really folks..


Can you elaborate this a bit more?

_________________
BIKE DESIGN AND +

http://cds-0.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:16 pm
Posts: 617
2002SaecoReplica wrote:
bikedoc wrote:
as for steerer angles, Why does no one do 650c wheels anymore??? then smaller riders could have a frame that fits, with no toe overlap and decent handling rather than make them ride wheels that are to big and have a head tube angle that makes the handling horrible


If you're in a situation where toe overlap is an issue you've got bigger problems to deal with. Namely, your body about to hit the pavement.


rubbish, great if that was true then they could make the smaller bikes with normal steerer angles instead of slackening them off.

ok you only normally jam your toe into the wheel at low speed but ive seen a number of riders go down doing u turns and concrete hurts at 5mph as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7412
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
bikedoc wrote:
as for steerer angles, Why does no one do 650c wheels anymore??? then smaller riders could have a frame that fits, with no toe overlap and decent handling rather than make them ride wheels that are to big and have a head tube angle that makes the handling horrible


With the increased production and design of compact frames styles, including but not limited to 'sloping' top tubes in the design, smaller frames that were traditionally restricted to 650c wheels are now able to use 700c wheel sizes. This is why there are less productions of 650c wheels in the market as the years have progressed.

_________________
Exp001 || TeamLACBC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:28 am 
Offline
in the industry
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:33 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Luxembourg / Sweden
Epic-O:
Kamm showed in the 1930s that releasing the airflow early decreased drag. The air is of a wing adhering to more surface area thus creating more drag. Aerfoils (or wings if you will) are usually used to produce a flow that is faster on one side in order to produce lift or downforce.


Also the published pictures of turbulence around the diffetent tube shapes all show a tube standing up straight, not very true to the geometry of a bicycle frame.

Another point, the geo table shows a rather pedestrian rider position with a relationship of stack-reach of over 1.51 for the 56 frame. This has to be corporate/marketing driven rather than 'F1-science' driven, catering to dentists than rather than sprinters and creating drag orders of magnitudes far beyond the alleged benefits of the tubeshapes.

_________________
Technical Artisans


Last edited by andy2 on Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:47 am, edited 5 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:31 am 
Offline
Shop Owner

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 1969
Location: NoVA/DC
Image

the numbers dont add up:
the difference in reach from a small to medium is listed as 1mm(!)
the wheelbase differencs is shown as a 9mm difference, with the taller bike being longer.
but with only a 1mm reach difference, AND a slacker head tube angle on the smaller bike, the wheelbase of the small should be LONGER.
which would be extra-stupid.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:18 am
Posts: 588
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
The wheelbase figure is wrong. Calculated F-C suggests a 1-2mm difference in WB between bikes.

Fork length back calculates to 376mm for whoever was worried about that.

(reach,stack) plot of some aero oriented road bikes. Plenty of options if you need reach of 385mm


Attachments:
aerobikes.JPG
aerobikes.JPG [ 34.54 KiB | Viewed 961 times ]

_________________
http://www.speedtheory.co.nz
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:04 am
Posts: 9
Who cares if the "engineering" is actually spot on.
If ya smart enough to know that it just "may" be marketing driven, then ya smart enough to know that the person on the bike is by so far the biggest problem in regard to drag, that the small gains that you get on the frame mean basically nothing to all but the best of the best, and they have there bike specially built anyway...
And if ya not ,and ya wanna believe with the marketing spiel... So what. As long as ya love ya bike...
The bike looks hot.
If you dont think so, dont buy it.
If you dont care about looks, ride one, if ya like it buy it, if ya dont like it dont buy it.
I could be lighter, that would make me ride faster
I could train better to produce more power, that would make me faster
I could ride in a better position, that would make me ride faster
I could think of another dozen things that would make me faster.
I reckon it looks hot, im buying.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:19 am 
Offline
in the industry
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:33 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Luxembourg / Sweden
Cool, put a beat to that and you have their first commercial. :lol:

_________________
Technical Artisans


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:48 am
Posts: 1041
Can Scott and Specialized please come up with some names that don't suck? Foil and Venge :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7412
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
F01 was better. :cry:

_________________
Exp001 || TeamLACBC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 1435
Location: Middle of nowhere, EU
I fail to see the improvement compared to the Addict which to me is a more radical design in every way.

_________________
The unbearable wallet lightness of being a weightweenie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:59 am
Posts: 234
Yeah. Totally,

With all the marketing

it's a good thing they didn't call it the FA1.... :|

Epic Venge Fail.

_________________
Buy it. & Ride it.
Only if it has a high margin of utility.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:09 pm 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 322 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 22  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Jaroslaw, Jere, nicrump, nutty, tannerbob, zulu695 and 58 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Gxp bb for Scott Foil

in Road

Peter_E

6

335

Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:09 pm

Zigmeister View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. TT fit for Scott Foil

in Road

efeballi

13

1727

Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:53 pm

efeballi View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Scott Foil and EPS

in Road

Martin.dk

13

2348

Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:12 am

ultimobici View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Scott Foil Di2 frameset

in Road

upside

3

735

Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:03 pm

Zigmeister View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Scott Foil or Colnago EPS

in Road

camber66

7

1397

Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:32 am

camber66 View the latest post


It is currently Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:29 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB