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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:16 pm
Posts: 642
how can they call that 'aero'
oh wait its because no one know what 'aero' is, there is no standard just marketing.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:19 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:16 pm
Posts: 642
as for steerer angles, Why does no one do 650c wheels anymore??? then smaller riders could have a frame that fits, with no toe overlap and decent handling rather than make them ride wheels that are to big and have a head tube angle that makes the handling horrible


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:22 pm 
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Location: Getting dropped
bikedoc wrote:
as for steerer angles, Why does no one do 650c wheels anymore??? then smaller riders could have a frame that fits, with no toe overlap and decent handling rather than make them ride wheels that are to big and have a head tube angle that makes the handling horrible


If you're in a situation where toe overlap is an issue you've got bigger problems to deal with. Namely, your body about to hit the pavement.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:32 pm 
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Posts: 621
andy2 wrote:
With all due respect to Scott and Trek engineers and marketing depts - but producing pictures on the effects of trunctuated airfoils at 90°, even with diffetent yaw angles... Seriously, the 1930s called and they want their science back!

It's like being blinded by science by the mighty 1972 Chevy Vega Kammback!
I mean really folks..


Can you elaborate this a bit more?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:13 am 
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Posts: 642
2002SaecoReplica wrote:
bikedoc wrote:
as for steerer angles, Why does no one do 650c wheels anymore??? then smaller riders could have a frame that fits, with no toe overlap and decent handling rather than make them ride wheels that are to big and have a head tube angle that makes the handling horrible


If you're in a situation where toe overlap is an issue you've got bigger problems to deal with. Namely, your body about to hit the pavement.


rubbish, great if that was true then they could make the smaller bikes with normal steerer angles instead of slackening them off.

ok you only normally jam your toe into the wheel at low speed but ive seen a number of riders go down doing u turns and concrete hurts at 5mph as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 8509
Location: Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
bikedoc wrote:
as for steerer angles, Why does no one do 650c wheels anymore??? then smaller riders could have a frame that fits, with no toe overlap and decent handling rather than make them ride wheels that are to big and have a head tube angle that makes the handling horrible


With the increased production and design of compact frames styles, including but not limited to 'sloping' top tubes in the design, smaller frames that were traditionally restricted to 650c wheels are now able to use 700c wheel sizes. This is why there are less productions of 650c wheels in the market as the years have progressed.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:28 am 
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in the industry
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:33 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Luxembourg / Sweden
Epic-O:
Kamm showed in the 1930s that releasing the airflow early decreased drag. The air is of a wing adhering to more surface area thus creating more drag. Aerfoils (or wings if you will) are usually used to produce a flow that is faster on one side in order to produce lift or downforce.


Also the published pictures of turbulence around the diffetent tube shapes all show a tube standing up straight, not very true to the geometry of a bicycle frame.

Another point, the geo table shows a rather pedestrian rider position with a relationship of stack-reach of over 1.51 for the 56 frame. This has to be corporate/marketing driven rather than 'F1-science' driven, catering to dentists than rather than sprinters and creating drag orders of magnitudes far beyond the alleged benefits of the tubeshapes.

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Last edited by andy2 on Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:47 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 1980
Location: NoVA/DC
Image

the numbers dont add up:
the difference in reach from a small to medium is listed as 1mm(!)
the wheelbase differencs is shown as a 9mm difference, with the taller bike being longer.
but with only a 1mm reach difference, AND a slacker head tube angle on the smaller bike, the wheelbase of the small should be LONGER.
which would be extra-stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:18 am
Posts: 743
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
The wheelbase figure is wrong. Calculated F-C suggests a 1-2mm difference in WB between bikes.

Fork length back calculates to 376mm for whoever was worried about that.

(reach,stack) plot of some aero oriented road bikes. Plenty of options if you need reach of 385mm


Attachments:
aerobikes.JPG
aerobikes.JPG [ 10.17 KiB | Viewed 1312 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:04 am
Posts: 10
Who cares if the "engineering" is actually spot on.
If ya smart enough to know that it just "may" be marketing driven, then ya smart enough to know that the person on the bike is by so far the biggest problem in regard to drag, that the small gains that you get on the frame mean basically nothing to all but the best of the best, and they have there bike specially built anyway...
And if ya not ,and ya wanna believe with the marketing spiel... So what. As long as ya love ya bike...
The bike looks hot.
If you dont think so, dont buy it.
If you dont care about looks, ride one, if ya like it buy it, if ya dont like it dont buy it.
I could be lighter, that would make me ride faster
I could train better to produce more power, that would make me faster
I could ride in a better position, that would make me ride faster
I could think of another dozen things that would make me faster.
I reckon it looks hot, im buying.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:19 am 
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in the industry
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:33 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Luxembourg / Sweden
Cool, put a beat to that and you have their first commercial. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:48 am
Posts: 1493
Can Scott and Specialized please come up with some names that don't suck? Foil and Venge :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 8509
Location: Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
F01 was better. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 1486
Location: Middle of nowhere, EU
I fail to see the improvement compared to the Addict which to me is a more radical design in every way.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:07 am 


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 scott FOIL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:59 am
Posts: 234
Yeah. Totally,

With all the marketing

it's a good thing they didn't call it the FA1.... :|

Epic Venge Fail.

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