!!!!!!!!!!!!! a REAL weight weenie !!!!!!!!!!
Moderator: robbosmans
Of caurse this could be the case, but Vinokurov is similar in height, and also weight... has perhaps 1-2% more body fat then Lance.
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Michael Rasmussen is 177cm and this year 59 - 58,5 kg. (1,5 kg less than last year).
BUT! - If you guys had followed him in his MTB days, you would see that he allways has been very very skinny. He´s build that way, with thin bones narrow shoulders and so on.
I don´t believe some smartazzes come here, pretending they have more insight in the riders health, than the teams and the riders themselves.
BUT! - If you guys had followed him in his MTB days, you would see that he allways has been very very skinny. He´s build that way, with thin bones narrow shoulders and so on.
I don´t believe some smartazzes come here, pretending they have more insight in the riders health, than the teams and the riders themselves.
Oh I have no idea about his health, I just said... that sadly, because of money involved, contracts and all... performance count's first, health second. He just needs to be "heathy" and strong long enough to perform for a few years and after that???
...anyway sport is a big bussines these days... and I am not saying Rasmussen isn't heatlhy, only that if doctor there, that doesn't always mean everything is as it should be... can mean he just makes sure, he performes as expected first, and thinks about health second. But I believe this is a common thing, has nothing to do with Rasmussen, but with competing on highest level in general.
Other than that I was very happy for Rasmussens achievement this year
...anyway sport is a big bussines these days... and I am not saying Rasmussen isn't heatlhy, only that if doctor there, that doesn't always mean everything is as it should be... can mean he just makes sure, he performes as expected first, and thinks about health second. But I believe this is a common thing, has nothing to do with Rasmussen, but with competing on highest level in general.
Other than that I was very happy for Rasmussens achievement this year
marathon wrote:All riders:http://www.letour.fr/2005/TDF/LIVE/us/2100/coureurs.html
Uh huh and Big George was 83 kg, dream on.... (has was 75 kg at the start)
Those are not the official measurements of the riders before the start of the Tour de France, otherwise Rasmussens data (and some other riders) wouldn't be missing.
Some more skinny cyclists:
http://www.originalolympics.com/Sport/Cycling/index.htm
- allezkmiec
- Posts: 621
- Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:01 pm
divve wrote:Also, look at Tom Boonen for instance. He's 192cm and about 78-80kg race weight. Compare the body types of these 3.
Well, this is kind of comparing apples to oranges... yeah, Boonen is a great rider at the top of his game, but can he get over mountains with guys like Lance, Ullrich, Basso or Rasmussen? No way. He's all about maximum power, not power to weight ratio.
But your point is still well-taken... heck, look at Maggie Backstedt! Biggest, heaviest guy in the peloton (to my knowledge) and he still managed to finish grand tours and win some major races.
Perhaps a misunderstanding, by the comparison of body types I meant that Lance doesn't look to have the muscle or fat to be relatively heavier compared to those other guys.
Below is the abstract from Coyle's paper on Armstrong:
"This case describes the physiological maturation from ages 21 to 28 yr
of the bicyclist who has now become the six-time consecutive Grand
Champion of the Tour de France, at ages 27–32 yr. Maximal oxygen
uptake (V˙ O2 max) in the trained state remained at 6 l/min, lean body
weight remained at 70 kg, and maximal heart rate declined from 207
to 200 beats/min. Blood lactate threshold was typical of competitive
cyclists in that it occurred at 76–85% V˙ O2 max, yet maximal blood
lactate concentration was remarkably low in the trained state. It
appears that an 8% improvement in muscular efficiency and thus
power production when cycling at a given oxygen uptake (V˙ O2) is the
characteristic that improved most as this athlete matured from ages 21
to 28 yr. It is noteworthy that at age 25 yr, this champion developed
advanced cancer, requiring surgeries and chemotherapy. During the
months leading up to each of his Tour de France victories, he reduced
body weight and body fat by 4–7 kg (i.e., 7%). Therefore, over the
7-yr period, an improvement in muscular efficiency and reduced body
fat contributed equally to a remarkable 18% improvement in his
steady-state power per kilogram body weight when cycling at a given
V˙
O2 (e.g., 5 l/min). It is hypothesized that the improved muscular
efficiency probably reflects changes in muscle myosin type stimulated
from years of training intensely for 3–6 h on most days."
I was surprised to learn that LA's lean body mass remained the same before and after cancer and that his weight loss was primarily body fat.
This paper also say LA weights about 72 Kg (158 pounds) at Tour start. Clearly, the TdF website does not post medical check data as LA is listed at 75 Kg and Jan Ullrich 73 Kg. There no way that at the start or finish of any Tour JU actually weighted less than LA.
Below is a quote from Joe Freil regarding body weight:
"But on the other hand, as weight goes down, aerobic capacity rises. And since aerobic capacity is one of the three major determiners of performance in endurance events, losing weight may make you a stronger and faster rider on the flats as well as the hills."
Getting light means getter more powerful. Jan Ullrich with Rasmussen's weight obession would beat LA.
"This case describes the physiological maturation from ages 21 to 28 yr
of the bicyclist who has now become the six-time consecutive Grand
Champion of the Tour de France, at ages 27–32 yr. Maximal oxygen
uptake (V˙ O2 max) in the trained state remained at 6 l/min, lean body
weight remained at 70 kg, and maximal heart rate declined from 207
to 200 beats/min. Blood lactate threshold was typical of competitive
cyclists in that it occurred at 76–85% V˙ O2 max, yet maximal blood
lactate concentration was remarkably low in the trained state. It
appears that an 8% improvement in muscular efficiency and thus
power production when cycling at a given oxygen uptake (V˙ O2) is the
characteristic that improved most as this athlete matured from ages 21
to 28 yr. It is noteworthy that at age 25 yr, this champion developed
advanced cancer, requiring surgeries and chemotherapy. During the
months leading up to each of his Tour de France victories, he reduced
body weight and body fat by 4–7 kg (i.e., 7%). Therefore, over the
7-yr period, an improvement in muscular efficiency and reduced body
fat contributed equally to a remarkable 18% improvement in his
steady-state power per kilogram body weight when cycling at a given
V˙
O2 (e.g., 5 l/min). It is hypothesized that the improved muscular
efficiency probably reflects changes in muscle myosin type stimulated
from years of training intensely for 3–6 h on most days."
I was surprised to learn that LA's lean body mass remained the same before and after cancer and that his weight loss was primarily body fat.
This paper also say LA weights about 72 Kg (158 pounds) at Tour start. Clearly, the TdF website does not post medical check data as LA is listed at 75 Kg and Jan Ullrich 73 Kg. There no way that at the start or finish of any Tour JU actually weighted less than LA.
Below is a quote from Joe Freil regarding body weight:
"But on the other hand, as weight goes down, aerobic capacity rises. And since aerobic capacity is one of the three major determiners of performance in endurance events, losing weight may make you a stronger and faster rider on the flats as well as the hills."
Getting light means getter more powerful. Jan Ullrich with Rasmussen's weight obession would beat LA.
John979
John979 wrote: Below is a quote from Joe Freil regarding body weight:
"But on the other hand, as weight goes down, aerobic capacity rises. And since aerobic capacity is one of the three major determiners of performance in endurance events, losing weight may make you a stronger and faster rider on the flats as well as the hills."
Getting light means getter more powerful. Jan Ullrich with Rasmussen's weight obession would beat LA.
You should't jump to conclussions so fast, if what Joe Firel says would be universal, then the lightest mountain specialists could beat an hour record
Friel was also reffering to that, that most people have some fat to lose. Rasmussen and Lance, lost theirs somewhere in between. And when Jan is lean... he is really really lean you got to agree here, he is pure muscle machine... but Lance just has the better package, he doesn't need to win 8x to prove that.
...anyway what Friel says is true of caurse, but only to a certain point... and that point is called, optimum point... Armstrong found his optimum point and he won Tour 7x + he beat cancer before that. And it's not just about the optimum point... you got to have the genes of Lance, to beat Lance
PS. By the way... I really aprechiate the abstract.
marathon wrote:John979 wrote: Below is a quote from Joe Freil regarding body weight:
"You should't jump to conclussions so fast, if what Joe Firel says would be universal, then the lightest mountain specialists could beat an hour record
You are misunderstanding the topic. I am discussing weight loss in an individual, not comparing individuals. Clearly, the evidence is that an individual is at an optimum performance point when that individual's weight is as low as possible without being extreme. Lance Armstrong is the perfect example.
In terms of comparing individuals, absolute power scales with BSA and relative power scales with weight. Smaller individuals have better power-to-weight ratios, larger individuals have better power-to-frontal area ratios. This effect due to cardiovascular system considerations: larger individuals have larger capacities to deliver oxygen to working muscle. However, muscular hypertrophy, expect possibly in the case of sprinters, is not a factor for cycling performance and is in fact detrimental.
John979
Well then I missunderstood you before.
allezkmiec wrote:Bjarne Riis used to do pretty darn well in TTs, and he was very thin. Remember the pics from 96? Every bone on that guy's body stuck out!
He told once that his shirts and shorts smelled of ammonia after a stage Go figure
Think, type, speak... In that order...
Surely it must be based on an individual basis. Okay, Rasmussen won the KOM title at the tour and had his best result. Great ride. However, he did start to fade at the end of the race and lose time,not only in the time trial, but the climbd to guys like armstrong, basso, ullrich and evans. These guys, whilst lean, had more muscular builds and evans and ullrich in particular, came on stronger towards the latter end of the race. Ulllrich is well known for getting stronger during tours. Maybe Rasmussen would benefit from adding a kilo or two and having a bit more in reserve for the end of the tour, and hence be a bit more consistent, who knows, only him and his team I guess.
Interesting story from a friend of mine who used to ride for her national team. A team mate was told to get her dkinfolds down to a certain level by a coach, who in his day was known as an extremely hard task master. She did get the skinfolds down to where he wanted them and never rode as strong whilst they were down that low. As soon as she went back to her previous levels, her power came back and she rode better, every person is an individual and responds differently.
I'm tipping that Rasmussen isn't at that weight the whole season, he probably wouldn't make it through if he was.
Interesting story from a friend of mine who used to ride for her national team. A team mate was told to get her dkinfolds down to a certain level by a coach, who in his day was known as an extremely hard task master. She did get the skinfolds down to where he wanted them and never rode as strong whilst they were down that low. As soon as she went back to her previous levels, her power came back and she rode better, every person is an individual and responds differently.
I'm tipping that Rasmussen isn't at that weight the whole season, he probably wouldn't make it through if he was.
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