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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:24 pm 
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Posts: 112
Location: NC, USA
This thread typifies why I really dislike all the new BB systems that have no real method of adjusting bearing preload. Shims and wavy washers are a poor substitute for a real mechanical adjustment. There's no way to take all the slack out of the system without binding the bearings 99% of the time. And do you really think that wavy washer is going to keep the crank from moving around when you are putting power to the pedals and rocking the bike around? I'm not a big Shimano fan, but their system at least allows for proper adjustment.

Now putting on flame suit.....


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Location: WALES,UK
darnellrm wrote:
And do you really think that wavy washer is going to keep the crank from moving around when you are putting power to the pedals and rocking the bike around?

Now putting on flame suit.....


Suit on yet? :lol:

Don't remember hearing of the Liquigas boys having any issues? I think if they could handle Magnus putting the power down they can handle anything. I certainly don't have any issues but then I'm not putting that much power down lol. I find the instructions are clear enough and once you are familier with the system its childs play, but you do need the removal tools, as you need the correct tools for any other system, there is no room for bodging!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:49 pm 
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Location: Canada
CAADHEAD wrote:
darnellrm wrote:
And do you really think that wavy washer is going to keep the crank from moving around when you are putting power to the pedals and rocking the bike around?

Now putting on flame suit.....


Suit on yet? :lol:

Don't remember hearing of the Liquigas boys having any issues? I think if they could handle Magnus putting the power down they can handle anything. I certainly don't have any issues but then I'm not putting that much power down lol. I find the instructions are clear enough and once you are familier with the system its childs play, but you do need the removal tools, as you need the correct tools for any other system, there is no room for bodging!


how are your cranks spinning without chain? Some local guy here told me he was torquing his cranks like crazy...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Location: WALES,UK
I have four bikes fitted with Hologram cranks, they all spin reasonably freely, as free as any cartridge bearing system does, the trick is, like has already been stated is minimal compression of the wave washer and torqued so as just eliminating side to side play with at least the minimum recommended torque. From experience it is generally two plastic spacers. Oh and my frames are Cannondale and Litespeed, so two different manufactures but with almost exact same tolerences.

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Last edited by BeeBee30 on Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:06 pm 
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Posts: 112
Location: NC, USA
I have a ceramic ISIS BB that when properly adjusted will spin for a full 10 secs+. I have yet to get close to this with any of the shim/wavy washer systems. I have used FSA, Specialized BB30, and Campy.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:11 pm 
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I've had chocolate bars last longer than an ISIS bottom bracket :lol: I don't think how long a crank spins independently really matters in the real world, its what happens when you pedal it. 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:14 pm 
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fine

now should I loosen it a bit? It spin but not endlessly, I can feel some very small drag when spinning it by hand.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:20 pm 
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I think your worrying about nothing, there will be a little drag. You can't really do anything without the removal tools. Order them off Ebay and when they come remove 1 spacer and see if there is any less drag but with no side to side play when you torque it back up.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:24 pm 
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ok thanks

I'll finish up bartape job in the coming days and post my new build in the introduction section!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:20 am 
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Posts: 642
darnellrm wrote:
This thread typifies why I really dislike all the new BB systems that have no real method of adjusting bearing preload. Shims and wavy washers are a poor substitute for a real mechanical adjustment. There's no way to take all the slack out of the system without binding the bearings 99% of the time. And do you really think that wavy washer is going to keep the crank from moving around when you are putting power to the pedals and rocking the bike around? I'm not a big Shimano fan, but their system at least allows for proper adjustment.

Now putting on flame suit.....


totally agree,
as for the wavey washer, the only way i could stop my SI cranks creaking then breaking was to have the washer almost completly flattened, if i wasnt they would move from side to side as the washer compressed more wearing the axle which then became loose so it moved more then broke. Honestly the worst cranks/bb ive every owned, yes they are light and stiff but thats pointless if they dont work for more than a couple of months


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1574
Location: Welland, Ontario
bikedoc wrote:
darnellrm wrote:
This thread typifies why I really dislike all the new BB systems that have no real method of adjusting bearing preload. Shims and wavy washers are a poor substitute for a real mechanical adjustment. There's no way to take all the slack out of the system without binding the bearings 99% of the time. And do you really think that wavy washer is going to keep the crank from moving around when you are putting power to the pedals and rocking the bike around? I'm not a big Shimano fan, but their system at least allows for proper adjustment.

Now putting on flame suit.....


totally agree,
as for the wavey washer, the only way i could stop my SI cranks creaking then breaking was to have the washer almost completly flattened, if i wasnt they would move from side to side as the washer compressed more wearing the axle which then became loose so it moved more then broke. Honestly the worst cranks/bb ive every owned, yes they are light and stiff but thats pointless if they dont work for more than a couple of months


I'm interested in what bike you had with the creaking problem. It seems to me that if there is a weakness in the BB30 system, is that it requires tight tolerances in such things as shell ID and groove machining that some manufacturers cannot meet.

I have both Campy and Truvativ cranks. I've never had a problem with Campy and it's wave washers. Truvativ eliminate the problem by clamping the axle to the NDS bearing - so no side preload, no float. It's an underrated system IMO.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:41 am
Posts: 72
bikerjulio wrote:
bikedoc wrote:
darnellrm wrote:
This thread typifies why I really dislike all the new BB systems that have no real method of adjusting bearing preload. Shims and wavy washers are a poor substitute for a real mechanical adjustment. There's no way to take all the slack out of the system without binding the bearings 99% of the time. And do you really think that wavy washer is going to keep the crank from moving around when you are putting power to the pedals and rocking the bike around? I'm not a big Shimano fan, but their system at least allows for proper adjustment.

Now putting on flame suit.....


totally agree,
as for the wavey washer, the only way i could stop my SI cranks creaking then breaking was to have the washer almost completly flattened, if i wasnt they would move from side to side as the washer compressed more wearing the axle which then became loose so it moved more then broke. Honestly the worst cranks/bb ive every owned, yes they are light and stiff but thats pointless if they dont work for more than a couple of months


I'm interested in what bike you had with the creaking problem. It seems to me that if there is a weakness in the BB30 system, is that it requires tight tolerances in such things as shell ID and groove machining that some manufacturers cannot meet.

I have both Campy and Truvativ cranks. I've never had a problem with Campy and it's wave washers. Truvativ eliminate the problem by clamping the axle to the NDS bearing - so no side preload, no float. It's an underrated system IMO.


If the manufacturers don't want to meet tight tolerances of proper BB30 spec then they spec Pressfit30. That's exactly what it was designed for. Most frames featuring regular BB30 should be high quality anyways. You get what you pay for.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:32 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: WALES,UK
Quote:
totally agree,
as for the wavey washer, the only way i could stop my SI cranks creaking then breaking was to have the washer almost completly flattened, if i wasnt they would move from side to side as the washer compressed more wearing the axle which then became loose so it moved more then broke. Honestly the worst cranks/bb ive every owned, yes they are light and stiff but thats pointless if they dont work for more than a couple of months


I honestly can't understand people having a problem with this system other than it being incorrectly fitted in the first place or something is damaged :roll: I've used this system since before time and I will not use anything else. I run my own cycle repair business so never work on my own bikes if I can help it, it would be like a bus mans holiday :lol: So the cranks are used in all weathers for years on end and never need any maintenance, as I said earlier in the thread I'm running four bikes with Hologram cranks and I'm no lightweight either, so I don't know what I'm doing right/wrong compared with you Bikedoc?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:35 am
Posts: 568
The creaking in Cannondale cranks has nothing to do with shims or washers, but is due to the bearings becoming loose in the frame. Apply a little Loctite - I believe I use the green kind - and the problem will go away.

Also, I have found that having too many shims can be just as problematic as having too few. For example, a couple of years ago, I felt like my crank was dragging. I added another shim and it started spinning better. There is a right balance to the number of shims needed on Cannondale cranks, though I cannot remember how many I run on my two.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:41 am
Posts: 72
topflightpro wrote:
The creaking in Cannondale cranks has nothing to do with shims or washers, but is due to the bearings becoming loose in the frame. Apply a little Loctite - I believe I use the green kind - and the problem will go away.

Also, I have found that having too many shims can be just as problematic as having too few. For example, a couple of years ago, I felt like my crank was dragging. I added another shim and it started spinning better. There is a right balance to the number of shims needed on Cannondale cranks, though I cannot remember how many I run on my two.


That doesn't make any sense.

How does adding more spacers reduce overall friction?


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