Reynolds RZR 46T vs. LW OBERMAYER GEN III

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leej88
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:22 am

by leej88

I'm quite sure this topic hasn't been discussed extensively and thus, would really like to hear user feedbacks (if there are any) about the Reynold's RZR 46T wheels.

I did my fair share of research and the RZR's albeit being essentially the same in terms of design as the Lew Pro VT-1's, shares nothing in common in terms of the build up process as well as materials used. According to an interview done with Paul Lew, these wheels are supposed to be improved versions with different material lay up and have gone through pretty extensive testings. As such, most problems face by LEW Pro VT-1 users have thus been eradicated.

Also, an article from http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-23159755.html has shown that although the wheel flexes laterally with relative ease to to its un-tensioned spokes, this will not happen during operation since the torque applied to it during pedaling is effectively on the same plane as the hubs or something along the lines. In essence, they will flex when pressed by hands but not, when under load during operation... :noidea:

All these points makes the RZR seem like the best wheels money can get and I have to say its getting me a little perked up about them!

Question is, why are the ridiculously priced LW's still so coveted when Reynolds have clearly produced something better (on paper) and is essentially the same in price as the LW's?

I've read from a couple of other forums and folks seem to think that its alright to purchase the LW's but not the Reynolds and in fact dubbed them as overpriced crap... :noidea:

So the question is, has anyone ridden the new RZRs or had any experience with them?

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CharlesM
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by CharlesM

they do flex under load...

You still see them used hardly at all by sponsored teams and even in climbing TT's you didnt see the footon serveto guys running them... there have only been a couple of mag reviews, the better of them summed them up with:

""In short, Reynolds RZR, with their 120g of less weight, are pure climbing wheels. Climbers which, from our point of view, should not exceed 70/72 kg under penalty of feeling a certain elasticity in the wheels. Corima, they accept everyone without stumbling…""



The reason LW are coveted is because they perform well... That also translated to a lot of use...

The reason the Reynolds are coveted is because they're incredibly high priced and have a great statistic... That also translates to hardly seeing them raced, even when the conditions seem to be tailor made for them.


Given the flex, the avoidance of pro use (beyond Token use) the cost and the incredibly bad history of Lew Racing, I simply wouldnt buy them...

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Danton
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by Danton

It's Lew technology but Reynolds, so I woudn't worry about the history too much.

But I've spoken to some Ag2r guys and they just prefer the rigidity of the DV46T, which holds up very well. They seem to have nothing against the wheels, just conservative belief that too light wheels could go wrong. So amusingly the very light DV46 and MV32 is the "solid" wheel.

Given your choice I'd pic the Obermayers but it depends how much you weigh, the riding style and the intended use.

sharkman
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Location: the Netherlands

by sharkman

Couldn't agree more. Only had a short look at these - and my weight won't go well with these wheels- but after looking at these I believed a rider weighing under 70 kg saying they flex.

Furthermore: at least 50% of the value of a set of wheels (for people that have to pay for them) is in the After sales quality (service). This is where Carbon Sports will win and Reynolds is blown away...... (apart from the fact Lightweights won't break down and I have some - in fact a lot of - doubts about these Reynols wheels...)

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Danton
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Location: Aix-les-Bains

by Danton

Reynolds service is good. I cracked some Zipps a long time ago and switched to Reynolds and have liked them ever since. Good service, quick replies to email, very helpful and I know others with warranty replacement. Maybe I'm just lucky here but it is a good support. Of course Carbonsports is very good and as I say, the choice of wheel looks better here.

If you really want the best of the best, why not also consider a custom build?

leej88
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:22 am

by leej88

I don't know where I read it but it seems that the Reynolds have a rider weight limit of up to 90kg?

If that's the case, I guess I'm eligible. =). Anyway, with all things being equal, I still find the Reynolds to be much better looking than the lightweights. And for the record, I'm currently usin the lightweight obermayer gen III's on my ride.

czvekslak
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:26 am

by czvekslak

The RZR Team has been raced in the pro peloton quite a bit, especially towards the end of the season by both AG2R and Footon. In the US the Fly V Australia guys were racing them a lot as well. They are also currently raced in cyclocross by Goeff Kabush - a pretty big and strong rider. The rider weight limit on them is a "performance limit" not a structural limit. Bigger riders will like the RZR Team better since it has increased stiffness.

One big advantage the RZR has over all other carbon spoked wheels is that up to half of the spokes can be replaced. It is $100 a spoke. They also have superior aerodynamics to anything out there in that depth or even deeper.

And Pez, you are just a Reynolds hater. Yes Lew had some questionable business dealings with Lew wheels but there is now way you should assume that Reynolds does not support and stand behind the product they make and sell. I see that Corima is your flavor of the month now. I would think that as a cycling journalist you would be a little more objective.

js
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Location: Canada

by js

czvekslak wrote:And Pez, you are just a Reynolds hater... I would think that as a cycling journalist you would be a little more objective.


Don't worry, I've got this one - czvekslak "that's ugly".

Inconsistent & flavour of the month are not terms that I'd associate with Pez and I'd be hard pressed to find examples of when he's stated a pro or con opinion of a product and not been able to back it up with personal experience or details straight from the source.

For example, if you're claiming that the R2R's "have superior aerodynamics to anything out there in that depth or even deeper", that's pretty bold and it would be great if you could back that up with some data, because unless you're talking about 0deg yaw and 20mm tires (and even then?), this information is in contrast to what I've understood.


As for Kabush!?! I had to find the pics for myself, but he was in fact running R2R's at Cross Vegas... not sure since then, as he's been rather consistently fourth and out of the photos. From all I've seen & read of these wheels, I can't see them being a very good match for his size and 'cross, but I'd sure be interested to hear more.


czvekslak
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:26 am

by czvekslak

Customer: MQC/ Reynolds
All tests run with 21mm tires
Test Section Speed: 29.44 MPH
Error +/-0.5%
Test Bicycle: Cervelo P4
Test Rider: USA National Team
DESCRIPTION YAW DRAG IN GRAMS WATTS AERO WATTS INERTIA TOTAL WATTS TIME GAIN (seconds)
40 K COURSE
RIDER-BIKE-SPOKE SETS
yaw drag in g watts aero watts inertia total watts time savings in s over 40k
RZR 46T 10 2133 273 0.00 273.00 76.19
SDV 66T SET 10 2112 271 7.84 278.84 62.89
ZIPP 808 SET 10 2068 268 10.95 278.95 62.64
DV 46 T SET 10 2267 291 4.23 295.23 32.40
ZIPP 404 SET 10 2281 292 7.01 299.01 16.96
MV 32 T SET 10 2369 304 2.46 306.46 0.00

js
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:57 pm
Location: Canada

by js

Now that's a commendable response - thank you czvekslak

Can you provide any extra information with those numbers - a clear description of what the column headers are and how they were calculated would be great. Otherwise, I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the DV46T and 404 have nearly identical numbers for drag & presumably inertia, but the DV46T was calculated to have twice the time savings over a 40k TT?

Also, was this testing done from any other angles, or was only 10deg used?

Thanks again for stepping up.

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irongatsby
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Location: Los Angeles

by irongatsby

From numerous discussions regarding Lightweights VS. Reynolds, it seems that the Lightweight brand holds an advantage based on proven history, quality, customer service and etc.. However, although within acceptable tolerances, the Lightweights don't seem to be the most true and round wheels out there. I suspect that this is due to the combination of the curing/baking process and the tension of the spokes. Now, I'd like to raise a question regarding RZRs. Since RZRs don't have tensioned spokes, could this mean that they are perhaps truer and rounder than Lightweights?

I'm new to the cycling industry and trying to learn everyday, but after reading about Paul Lew and his controversial history, I still somehow think that he is possibly a very bright and innovative individual. Maybe the RZR is just a few improvements away from becoming an absolute gem? I'd love to hear from the experts in this forum.

sungod
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm

by sungod

hard to see how the rzr could be improved, according to the data posted above it's "watts inertia" is 0.00

by Weenie


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reggiebaseball
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:13 am

by reggiebaseball

Rzr is ultimate wheelset for racing on paper.
LW better for riding on planet earth.

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