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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Location: Surrey UK
Tune Mag 170 hub manual's quotation:

"The Mat 170 hub must not be laced radially! Triple-corossed spokes are optimal and at least a double crossing is required."

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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:59 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:06 pm 
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@Dimitri- As mentioned, radial lacing may not be the best idea for the DS. It stresses the flange quite a bit, and could lead to distortion or flange failure, which is why it isn't recommended by Tune. I think you should take bmps advice. 2x both sides is going to be a great option.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:19 pm 
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Hi all,

Not so much a new build question but a problem that I am having with a relatively new built set of wheels, so if this isn't the right thread please let me know.

The build is Hope Pro 3 Mono hubs laced to Ambrosio Evolution clincher rims with 32 DT Swiss Competition spokes 2-Cross on the rear. The wheels have done about 2400km and were built by my LBS. Have had handbuilt wheels from them before and they have been very good, also know loads of other people with handbuilts who have had no issues. Have talked with the builder and he is as stuck for ideas as me.

I have now broken 4 spokes on this rear wheel. All of them have been non-drive side rear and have all broken at the J-bend near the hub.

My question is what do you think is the best way to stop this from happening? I am considering asking them to re-lace them 3-Cross and tie and solder the spokes but I am a bit reluctant as the hubs already have marks around the spoke holes and I am not sure how much this would affect a re-build.

Any advice would be very welcome as I am starting to get pretty hacked off!

Thanks,

Campbell.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:48 pm 
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@campbell- It sounds like the tension on that rear wheel is too low. I think you should take it to the LBS and have them check both the drive and non drive side tension. When spokes break at the J-bend, it is a tell tale sign that tension is too low, especially when it is on the rear non drive side.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:53 pm 
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^^ Thank you for the quick response! Will speak with them tomorrow about that.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Probably the tension as Zen said. Tie and soldering won't solve that problem more tension will though. Also 2x on a 32H wheel is a bit unusual. I am sure it work but 2x is normally done on 28, 24 and 20 spoke wheels.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:08 pm 
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Ok what do you think soldering and tieing help for stiffer wheelset?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:37 pm 
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It doesn't make the wheel stiffer. It does mean that you can ride with a broken spoke and not worry about it jamming in the frame.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:40 pm 
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kavitator wrote:
Ok what do you think soldering and tieing help for stiffer wheelset?


It won't improve rigidity at all. It will make replacing a broken spoke a nightmare though.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:41 pm 
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I have never done I can just see it being a faf and hassle. Faff and hassele are too things to avoid.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:02 pm 
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zed wrote:
Zen Cyclery wrote:
Miele wrote:
Questions for you Pro wheel builders - I just had some Kinlin XR-19W rims laced to BHS hubs with 24/28 lasers built by a local shop - as I have yet to enter the wheel building world. I am around 185 lbs and had no problems with old Cane Creek Volos 24/28's, or Campy Zonda's for that matter. Front wheel is great , however when I go to drop the hammer, the rear just dosent transmit the torque to crest that hill or power the flats. They spin fast but I cant muscle my way up a climb like I used to. I guess I should have gone XR-300's but:

I wanted to check spoke tension first - what should the DS and NDS tension be? NDS spokes feel quite low in tension...

Would it make a difference to rebuild with 'Race' spokes instead on both DS and NDS?

Thanks!


I was worried about this problem on these rims. They are only rated to go 105 kgf for max tension, which definitely makes me a bit skeptical. Even if upon the initial build, they were setup to 105 kgf DS, this is still low enough to where I would think the nips would gradually start unwinding.
Go ahead and check the DS tension and make sure it is at 105 or just a tad abobe. For the NDS, you aren't looking for any specific number. As long as your DS is good, and the wheel is in dish, then you should be good to go.
I doubt switching to Race spokes will do much either. If getting the rear back up to proper tension doesn't change the ride quality, you may want to consider rebuilding to the XR270 or what not.


The combination of BHS rear hub with its suboptimal geometry and low max rim tension is not going to yield a durable wheel with lower spoke count. The extra low NDS tension will cause problems on that side, especially for 180+ lb rider. Contrast that to the use of Kinlins XR-270 or 300 with good high tension on DS, and the BHS hubs will do well.


So I guess rebuilding that wheel with a different rear hub with wider flange spacing and/or diameter would help? Hub suggestions so that it would match the black BHS front hub? I cant sell it now - canti pad just flipped and wore off black ano on one side.... :evil:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:16 am 
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Zen Cyclery wrote:
kavitator wrote:
Ok what do you think soldering and tieing help for stiffer wheelset?


It won't improve rigidity at all. It will make replacing a broken spoke a nightmare though.


it's not as big a hassle as one would think. a "bic" lighter will work. OTOH, it does nothing for stiffness or strength.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:43 am 
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Will tyeing and soldering spokes help to prevent unwinding spokes in low tesnion wheelstes (wood rims as a case)?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:13 am 
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Why not use spoke freeze or self locking nipples instead? A tied and soldered spoke can still loose tension I would have thought and therefore the nipple could unwind.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:31 pm 
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i have no problems with unwinded spokes...just looking for oppinions about soldering. I get wire and i dont know if it is worthy doing this :)

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Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:31 pm 


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