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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:02 pm
Posts: 468
So what NDS spoke tension do you figure he'll have after inflating?

40-38kg?

I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just pointing out that that particular rim/hub combination may prove problematic.
Personally I'd err on the side of caution, and choose either a different hub or a different rim.


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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:07 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:10 am
Posts: 347
Ok I'm building up my HED C2 rims with Alchemy hubs and Sapim CX-Rays. The build is 28 (2x) front and 32 (3x) rear. I'm using the Park Tool TM-1 and based on comments here the best chart column for use with these spokes is 'Steel Blade 1.0 x 2.0~2.2 mm' (the spoke is nominally 1.0 x 2.1 mm).

I haven't been able to find the maximum spoke tension for these rims. HED publish maximum spoke tensions (in TM 1 units) for their wheelsets here. Any suggestions as to which wheelset is representative of the HED C2 rim?

Evidently the Ardennes FR/SL are a lighter rim (Scandium?) compared to the LT/CL so maybe I'll go with the LT/CL suggestions for maximum tension?

Does the fact that these wheels come with straight-pull radial spokes (whereas mine are J-bend crossed) alter the recommended maximum tension?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:06 pm
Posts: 39
Mackers wrote:
So what NDS spoke tension do you figure he'll have after inflating?

40-38kg?

I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just pointing out that that particular rim/hub combination may prove problematic.
Personally I'd err on the side of caution, and choose either a different hub or a different rim.


Since the spacing is poor, I could always try to lace 2x heads in on the DS to squeeze out a little more room. That's probably good for a mm or 2.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Posts: 1130
Location: Slovenia---that forest land
what about Bartime hubs?
large flange on DS vs NDS.

for low tension rims i think it is perfect(but where get that hubs)

About park tool TS1- same accurate with round and flat spokes'

i did some tests. Put 120kg of weights on spoke - one spoke was sapim d light (round 1,6mm) and other sapim cx ray straight pull

on d light it was very close to actual weight.
On sapim cx ray it was correct when i unwind screw 8wich holds one part of spring) for 6 revolutions.

Now i am waiting for Wheelfanatic superdruper device :)

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My NEED FOR SPEED ride:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhlPRud7oM


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:59 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Surrey UK
Guys, can I ask you for advice?
Now I'm building set of wheels:
H Plus Son Archetype 23/25mm, initially I thought about Velocity A23, but Archetype should be stronger due to its higher profile.
Mig/Mag 70/170, spokes cx-ray 24/28. Front pattern radial inbound. Rear, that's the question I was hoping you can help me with. Should I go for 2x and radial for stiffness...?
I'm 200lb. I'm hoping to build stiffer and stronger wheel than the one I'm using right now: IRD Cadence VSR, cx-ray 28 2x, Dati hub.
Thanks in advance.

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Cervelo R5 VWD 5637g/12.43lb
Pronghorn XC SW Race 8284g/18.26lb


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Posts: 1244
Location: McCall, ID
1415chris wrote:
Guys, can I ask you for advice?
Now I'm building set of wheels:
H Plus Son Archetype 23/25mm, initially I thought about Velocity A23, but Archetype should be stronger due to its higher profile.
Mig/Mag 70/170, spokes cx-ray 24/28. Front pattern radial inbound. Rear, that's the question I was hoping you can help me with. Should I go for 2x and radial for stiffness...?
I'm 200lb. I'm hoping to build stiffer and stronger wheel than the one I'm using right now: IRD Cadence VSR, cx-ray 28 2x, Dati hub.
Thanks in advance.


Since your doing a 28 hole, go with a 3x both sides on the rear.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:06 pm
Posts: 39
kavitator wrote:
what about Bartime hubs?
large flange on DS vs NDS.

for low tension rims i think it is perfect(but where get that hubs)



Interesting, I wonder what the price is. Can't find them anywhere.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3323
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
The Escape rim may have a max recomended tension of 1050N but I would always put a minimum of 1100N on the drive side regardless of the manufacturer says. If a rim cannot take 1100N of spoke tension it is not worthy of spokes.

I am sure the escape rim will be happy with 1100-1200N if it isn't the choose another rim. If those tension are used then sensible NDS tensions will achieved with the BHS hubs.

I want to build with those archetpye rims. Lets us know the real weight of the rims. I might buy some, they look pretty good to. I am imagining a 24F/28R set with Goldtec hubs and CX-ray spokes.

I like the look of the Bartime hubs. I like the where to buy page alot.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
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Location: Slovenia---that forest land
you can reduce 10 speed to 11 speed (shimano) on bartime road hubs.
saw them on Eurobike - really nice hubs and design.

ok back to wheelbuilding

_________________
http://kavitec.blogspot.com/

My NEED FOR SPEED ride:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhlPRud7oM


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:59 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Surrey UK
Zen Cyclery wrote:
1415chris wrote:
Guys, can I ask you for advice?
Now I'm building set of wheels:
H Plus Son Archetype 23/25mm, initially I thought about Velocity A23, but Archetype should be stronger due to its higher profile.
Mig/Mag 70/170, spokes cx-ray 24/28. Front pattern radial inbound. Rear, that's the question I was hoping you can help me with. Should I go for 2x and radial for stiffness...?
I'm 200lb. I'm hoping to build stiffer and stronger wheel than the one I'm using right now: IRD Cadence VSR, cx-ray 28 2x, Dati hub.
Thanks in advance.


Since your doing a 28 hole, go with a 3x both sides on the rear.

Thanks for your input. I've just found one of your interesting elaborations on the rear patterns on the other forum :thumbup:

Have you, or anybody else by any chance, dealt with these rims? Going for 28 on the rear, would it be enough for that weight? Although their web says that these rims should hold the 200lb biker with 20/24.... maybe with different spokes, than my choice.

And speaking about the Dati hubs, I've just posted in "Dati hubs" thread,:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79202&start=30#p921981"

_________________
Cervelo S5
Cervelo R5 VWD 5637g/12.43lb
Pronghorn XC SW Race 8284g/18.26lb


Last edited by 1415chris on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Posts: 1244
Location: McCall, ID
I have worked quite a bit with the A23, but I have not built any of the H+ products. I have had quite a few customers ask about them, but I have no real world experience with them.

With regards to spoke count, I think that you should stick with the 28 hole rear. You could probably get away with a 20/24, but I have always been a fan of overbuilding a bit.

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Last edited by Zen Cyclery on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:35 am
Posts: 313
Location: Parakai, New Zealand
I've brought the following parts for my 1st build. I am 73kgs/160lbs.

Hubs = DT240 front 24H/Rear 28H
Rims = Velocity A23

I am thinking of lacing as follows - 2x front DT Revo's w/ alloy nipple and 2x rear - DS DT Comp & brass nipple + NDS DT Revo & alloy nipple.

Ultimately I am looking for a reliable/durable wheelset not necessarily a lightweight one (though not keen to add extra without reason)! I choose the 240's for ease of swapping to race wheels (DT190 rear). I currently ride handbuilt 20/24H DT 240's with DT Revo's (2x DS otherwise radial) & Reynolds Attack carbon rim without much issue, only slight flex out of saddle climbing on rear.

Wanted to run my build past those experienced wheelbuilders out there as a peer review :thumbup: Your expert opinions are welcomed. Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Posts: 1244
Location: McCall, ID
dmoneysworks wrote:
I've brought the following parts for my 1st build. I am 73kgs/160lbs.

Hubs = DT240 front 24H/Rear 28H
Rims = Velocity A23

I am thinking of lacing as follows - 2x front DT Revo's w/ alloy nipple and 2x rear - DS DT Comp & brass nipple + NDS DT Revo & alloy nipple.

Ultimately I am looking for a reliable/durable wheelset not necessarily a lightweight one (though not keen to add extra without reason)! I choose the 240's for ease of swapping to race wheels (DT190 rear). I currently ride handbuilt 20/24H DT 240's with DT Revo's (2x DS otherwise radial) & Reynolds Attack carbon rim without much issue, only slight flex out of saddle climbing on rear.

Wanted to run my build past those experienced wheelbuilders out there as a peer review :thumbup: Your expert opinions are welcomed. Thanks


The 2x up front should be just fine. On the rear, go with a 3x on the drive side.

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http://www.zencyclery.com


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:13 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Canada
I am planning on building a wheel around a Powertap Pro hub and I was hoping to get some opinions. I am a heavy rider (~90kg) and I plan on using this wheel for training and the odd race. I want it to be as stiff as possible but if the difference in stiffness is negligible then I will obviously go with the lighter option... I am planning on using a Stan's Alpha 340 rim.

My first question is round or bladed spokes? Which is stiffer?
Should I consider brass nipples or will alloy nipples be sturdy enough?
How many spokes should I use? 28? 32?

I apologize if this topic has been covered already...


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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:14 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 1998
DT Aerolites or Sapim CX-Ray . Both are pretty similar.

Alloy nipples are "strong enough" when new, but I have broken some just through corrosion at the nipple base if they get exposed to water and road salt within about a year and a half. So for a heavy guy, I would strongly consider brass.


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