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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:20 pm 
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Zen Cyclery wrote:
JBF- I would definitely suggest to go back and lace the spokes overlapping. This will make the wheels much stiffer for both power transfer and lateral rigidity. This shouldn't put too much stress on the spokes. Just make sure that it is the last cross that is overlapping, and make sure that all crosses are uniform (ie lead spokes under pull on the last x).


Thanks to all who replied so quickly. It will take just a few minutes to un-do every other nipple and interlace the spokes, and then I can finish my new wheel.


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Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:20 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 5:08 pm 
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It isn't really going to matter. Certainly won't effect power transfer on the front (but won't on the rear either) and lateral stiffness will be essentially the same as well. But spokes are usually crossed... looks kinda funny otherwise. You could have laced it 3x to give you more room, but it's too late now.


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Correct me if I am wrong but I thought interlacing spokes affects the stress cycle of the spokes ? Without interlacing the force on a spoke lets it move independant of other spokes, while if interlaced they work together ? That is, assuming the number of spokes, hub and rim selection require it to be built that way. Otherwise, it won't matter much for a front wheel.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:43 pm 
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I am looking for a wheelset for road training and maybe CX racing (as wheelset number 2 since I have a tubular wheelset already).

I have been looking at the Ultegra 6700 wheelset (it can be used in a tubeless setup). But I have also seen Open Pro/6700/DT Revolution wheelsets relatively cheap (230€ vs 275 for the Ultegra wheelset). I did take a look at Mavic and Easton wheelsets, but I thought they were a little too heavy the price considered.

Any suggestions?

Thanks :)

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:04 am 
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strobbekoen wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought interlacing spokes affects the stress cycle of the spokes ? Without interlacing the force on a spoke lets it move independant of other spokes, while if interlaced they work together ? That is, assuming the number of spokes, hub and rim selection require it to be built that way. Otherwise, it won't matter much for a front wheel.


Testing has determined that it doesn't effect lateral stiffness... the bit of side force on the spoke at the cross does very little to make them "work together". The spoke bracing angle matters most.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:13 am 
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My faith in these lightweight Chinese rims has been somewhat diminished from my already fairly low expectations.

I had just finished building a front wheel, very even 100kgf spoke tension, 24 spokes on a 20mm farsport 224g tubular rim and was giving the last spoke a tweak and thinking about glueing on a tire rather than what I was doing. The spoke key slipped and cracked the alloy nipple.

The wheel was straight and I could have left it but I thought I'd do it properly so decided to replace the nipple. Stupidly I unwound just that one spoke and removed it. I was about to put in the new nipple when the below happened.

Obviously the rim can't handle full tension on all spokes and then having one removed. It makes me wonder what would happen if you ever broke a spoke during a ride.

From what I can decipher from farsports replies, they suggest that the wheel should be built by one of their experienced wheel builders, not that would make a lick of difference if a spoke ever broke. Plus it's not as though I had uneven or super high spoke tension.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:10 am 
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Bad news Petal? :(
That is one of the reasons I've stayed well away from these rims.
I've built several sets for a guy who bought them in bulk, but had some terrible experiences with trying to get the wheels round and true with a good even spoke tension.....it was taking me like double the time I'd expect for that type of build?
Even with a large amount of labour time, the results were pretty average and resulted in wheels that were a comprimise between roundness and a reasonable spoke tension variance.
As you say, a broken spoke could well lead to a massive faliure and a very nasty accident indeed?
The wall thickness of the rims varies wildly and if you're unlucky enough to stress a thin patch it'll just collapse.
Shame, because a bit of testing and quality control would go a long way towards reliability?

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:15 am 
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I gave up trying to make it round. You could see the flat spot in the rim.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:20 am 
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petal666 wrote:
My faith in these lightweight Chinese rims has been somewhat diminished from my already fairly low expectations.

I had just finished building a front wheel, very even 100kgf spoke tension, 24 spokes on a 20mm farsport 224g tubular rim and was giving the last spoke a tweak and thinking about glueing on a tire rather than what I was doing. The spoke key slipped and cracked the alloy nipple.

The wheel was straight and I could have left it but I thought I'd do it properly so decided to replace the nipple. Stupidly I unwound just that one spoke and removed it. I was about to put in the new nipple when the below happened.

Obviously the rim can't handle full tension on all spokes and then having one removed. It makes me wonder what would happen if you ever broke a spoke during a ride.

From what I can decipher from farsports replies, they suggest that the wheel should be built by one of their experienced wheel builders, not that would make a lick of difference if a spoke ever broke. Plus it's not as though I had uneven or super high spoke tension.

Image
Image


Sorry to hear about your broken rims when wheelbuilding, does farsport replace a new set to you?

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Last edited by focuscarbon on Wed May 18, 2011 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:24 am 
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Can anyone recommend the spoke tension for a front wheel built up with a Open Pro and Lasers? Rider is 55-60kg depending on ice cream intake.

I'm seeing anything from 90 to 130kgf

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:40 am 
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rruff wrote:
strobbekoen wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought interlacing spokes affects the stress cycle of the spokes ? Without interlacing the force on a spoke lets it move independant of other spokes, while if interlaced they work together ? That is, assuming the number of spokes, hub and rim selection require it to be built that way. Otherwise, it won't matter much for a front wheel.


Testing has determined that it doesn't effect lateral stiffness... the bit of side force on the spoke at the cross does very little to make them "work together". The spoke bracing angle matters most.


Thanks :D
We've all been doing it for years building wheels that way.
I wonder if anyone knows why crossed spokes are laced under the last cross ?

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:17 pm 
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strobbekoen wrote:
Thanks :D
We've all been doing it for years building wheels that way.
I wonder if anyone knows why crossed spokes are laced under the last cross ?


I've got a theory...

Spoke breakage is due to the loading cycles of spokes (high-tension to low-tension and back). Without interlacing, when one spoke direction is increasing in tension because of torque on the drivetrain (or disc-brake), the other spokes wil detension about as much.

In the case of interlacing, when one direction increases in tension, it pulls the interlaced cross in/outward, causing a slight increase in the other direction's spokes as well. This might offset some of the detensioning, creating a smaller load/unload cycle, and prolonging the life of all spokes.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:19 am 
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That's what I figured when I mentioned stress cycles before. It makes sense intuitively.
I am hoping our professional wheel builders on the forum can give their views on this ?

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:17 am 
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petal666 wrote:
My faith in these lightweight Chinese rims has been somewhat diminished from my already fairly low expectations.



Nothing wrong with what you did... obviously a POS rim. You are lucky it failed before you used it.


Last edited by rruff on Thu May 19, 2011 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:17 am 


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:28 am 
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two-one wrote:
In the case of interlacing, when one direction increases in tension, it pulls the interlaced cross in/outward, causing a slight increase in the other direction's spokes as well. This might offset some of the detensioning, creating a smaller load/unload cycle, and prolonging the life of all spokes.


The question is... how much? The answer is not very much... like close enough to zero. That is one reason why radial spoking has become common.

Crossed spokes are interlaced because there is no reason not to. One advantage is that it keeps the outside spokes from sticking out so far and also makes the bracing angle of both inside and outside spokes about the same. It looks better too IMO.


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