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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:07 am 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2822
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Rather embassaring the front weheel lost grip on some decking on approach to cafe and got trapped between the wooden board writing of the wheel. I as I said really stupid.

I can stomach it I will take a photo tommorrow but the wheel will be rebuilt tommorrow. The spoke, nipples and hub look reusable its the rim that toast. I will have to take a proper look at the condition of the spokes and nipples first though.

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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:07 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:22 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Espoo
I need some advice. New to wheelbuilding, been truing my wheels before but never built ones. I'm building three sets of wheels (for my CX and roadie) with Novatec hubs and Sapim Race spokes. I can get the spokes only in even lengths (2x0,2x2,2x4,2x6...etc). I've been trying to decide the spoke lengths with the DTSwiss calc and Edd calculator, and I have a few questions regarding them.
I think the basic question is, whether to round up or down? I've been reading about it, some people say to always round up (to have the maximum threads engaged) and other say to round down (to not to bottom out the threads). I'm in Finland, no LBS where to get the spokes so I have to order everything from Germany. Shipping is expensive, therefore I'd rather get everything right the first time.

The wheelset are:
1. Novatec hubs (F:A171SB, R:F172SB), Mavic A319 rims. Front 32h/3x, rear 32h/3x. The two calculators give me (Edd/DTSwiss)
- F:296.4/292.2mm
- NDS 294.9/294.7, DS 293.1/292.9
Should I get the spokes: F 296mm, NDS 294, DS 292?

2. Novatec hubs (F:A171SB, R:F172SB), Mavic CXP33 rims. Front 28h/2x, rear 32h/3x, 14mm nipples. DTSwiss calc takes 1mm off the spoke length due to the longer nipple, edd does not. Spoke lengths then are Edd/DTSwiss:
- F:288.5/288, for this I suppose get the 288mm spokes
- NDS:291,7/291, DS:289.9/289.
Should I round the rear spokes up or down, NDS:290 or 292, DS 288 or 290? If I round down, should I get some 16mm nipples just to be sure?

3. Novatec hubs (F:A291SB, R:F482SB), KinLin XR-300 rims. Fron 28h/2x, rear 32h/3x. Spoke lenghts edd/DTSwiss calc are:
- F:280.2/280.2,
- NDS 282.6/282.5, DS 279.4/279.4.
Same question here as above: F:280mm is the right lenght, NDS 282mm I suppose, but for the DS 278mm or 280mm ?
The erd used is 577mm, has anyone measured the XR-300 and what were your results? I read somewhere that the erd can be 578 or even 579, that would make 278mm DS spokes too short?

What would you do? Any advice is appreciated.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:22 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2822
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
The ERD measurement will depend on how you measure it. For the XR-300 The 577mm measurment will give you 12mm nipples that just cover the threads. I use 579mm as it gives a bit more egnagement on 12mm nipples without the threads sticking out the top of the nipples. If using 579mm round down though. If using the 577mm measurement round up.

It sounds like you have not measured the rims your self. I would do this as then you get to deside where the threads will dend up in the nipples. Use your mesurements when calculating spoke length this is how expensive and time wasting mistakes are avoided.

2 200mm spokes with 12mm nipples threaded on the end. Screw the nipples so they over the threads and you decide how far down you want them. Measure ERD and then round up or down dpending how close to the top of the nipple the threads are when measuring the ERD.

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www.thecycleclinic.co.uk


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:08 am
Posts: 101
Location: North Carolina
MajorMantra wrote:
Does anyone know what size Veloplugs the H+ Son Archetype takes? I'm building up a couple of sets but I don't have the rims yet.


The Archetype doesn't seem to play well with either red or yellow Veloplugs. I just started stocking them today and tried the plugs on a couple of rims. The red is too small, but the yellow is really a tad too big - although I imagine with a little work you could squeeze them in, or perhaps just shave a mm off somehow. But it does seem as if the hole diameter is right between red and yellow, too small and too big - kind of annoying, because these are otherwise really gorgeous, well-made rims.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:48 am
Posts: 1447
Maybe something to think about?
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71431


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:37 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2822
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Seriously velo plugs are already so light you will be saving a gram or 2 this is not going to be noticeable when riding and you will sweat more than that in minutes.

I use and stock velo plugs but I would not try to find anything lighter.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:48 am
Posts: 1447
Nothing to do with weight saving, simply to do with modifying them to fit certain rims better.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: Slovenia---that forest land
Veloplugs are perfect - 10gramms will have no effect

Lighter option composite (carbone/armide)
http://kavitec.blogspot.com/2012/07/kav ... evlar.html

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click this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m8maAO-m-w


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:50 pm
Posts: 16
Can anyone recommend a good wheel builder in the Phoenix AZ area? I have a pile of parts to put together but chickened out doing the actual build as I have never built a wheel and don't really have the right tools. I know Fairwheel is in Tucson but I'm too busy (read lazy) to make the drive right now.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:38 pm
Posts: 293
sbh1973 wrote:
The Archetype doesn't seem to play well with either red or yellow Veloplugs. I just started stocking them today and tried the plugs on a couple of rims. The red is too small, but the yellow is really a tad too big - although I imagine with a little work you could squeeze them in, or perhaps just shave a mm off somehow. But it does seem as if the hole diameter is right between red and yellow, too small and too big - kind of annoying, because these are otherwise really gorgeous, well-made rims.


Hmmm, that's annoying. I emailed H Plus Son to ask about them and they said the holes are 8.5mm, which is the minimum for yellows, but that they offered no guarantee they'd fit. I've already ordered a load of yellows so I hope I can get them in.

Cheers for the reply.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:33 am
Posts: 57
Quick question guys;


What is the rule on re-using rims?
I'm looking at rebuilding a set of rims that have never gone out of true, done about 10,000km, 32H and originally built by a professional wheel builder. Will I be able to build these into a durable wheelset or am I likely to continue to encounter problems as a result of them being tensioned previously?
Also, what would be the best way to go about de-constructing the original wheel if it is possible to re-use the rims with reasonable lifespan left in them?


Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Posts: 1244
Location: McCall, ID
@snicks- Assuming the rim is in good shape, which it sounds like it is, then rebuilding that rim should be no problem. Start with detensioning the non drive side, then, turn by turn, loosen the drive side.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:28 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:33 am
Posts: 57
Awesome thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:22 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Espoo
bm0p700f wrote:
The ERD measurement will depend on how you measure it. For the XR-300 The 577mm measurment will give you 12mm nipples that just cover the threads. I use 579mm as it gives a bit more egnagement on 12mm nipples without the threads sticking out the top of the nipples. If using 579mm round down though. If using the 577mm measurement round up.

It sounds like you have not measured the rims your self. I would do this as then you get to deside where the threads will dend up in the nipples. Use your mesurements when calculating spoke length this is how expensive and time wasting mistakes are avoided.

2 200mm spokes with 12mm nipples threaded on the end. Screw the nipples so they over the threads and you decide how far down you want them. Measure ERD and then round up or down dpending how close to the top of the nipple the threads are when measuring the ERD.


Thanks. I suppose it's better to just measure the rims now that I have them.


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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:02 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:32 pm
Posts: 260
Location: S.E. TN
For stateside BHS fans, they now carry the H+ Archetype rims. $70 matte black, $80 hard anodized.


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