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 Post subject: Steel frames
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Hi

Is it possible to build a ww bike around a steel frameset?

Any reccomendations for a steel frameset?

What do guys think of Pegoretti frames?

Cheers
Vinny

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2002 7:49 pm
Posts: 1057
Location: The Netherlands - Europe
I think Pegoretti's look very good. The finish is superb! Close up, they allways look better than on a picture, I think.

Pretty solid too and very light for a steel frame. A friend of mine, who is quite tall and strong, broke every frame he ever had, but his Marcelo is still in one piece.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:44 am
Posts: 78
Location: New Orleans Louisiana USA
Check out Don Walker's stuff. Nice. www.donwalkercycles.com He just put one together that was 15lbs. and some change.


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 Post subject: Landshark
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:55 pm
Posts: 2350
Location: Vienna, AUT
While you may not be able to achieve hyper-light weights with steel, you will have that magic ride. You should check out www.landsharkbicycles.com. The build is completely custom, you can work with John Slawta to put together tube combinations that meet your requirements and they have some of the finest custom paint jobs out there. For stock frames the DeRosa Corum is a beautifully balanced frameset.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:27 pm
Posts: 1124
Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
Check Vanilla bikes.

In general: get a frame made out of SAT 16.5 EOM, lightest, strongest steeltubing. Pegoretti is very nice and custom available!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:03 pm
Posts: 113
King Weel wrote:
Check Vanilla bikes.

In general: get a frame made out of SAT 16.5 EOM, lightest, strongest steeltubing. Pegoretti is very nice and custom available!


I'm a framebuilder and I know eom is very sketchy stuff. There are much better alternatives for ww steel. Eom is pretty brittle, it has low elongation. It is just a heat treated version of deda's sat/zero uno steel and the joints anneal during welding. The butts are also weird. They're just tapered. The more you cut them down, the thinner they get. They spec 0.6 0.4 0.6mm butts on they're website but you end up with 0.5mm ends once it's cut. You can do much better than this stuff.
I definatly would not go for a complete eom tubeset but I do like the downtube shapes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:03 pm
Posts: 113
King Weel wrote:
Check Vanilla bikes.

In general: get a frame made out of SAT 16.5 EOM, lightest, strongest steeltubing. Pegoretti is very nice and custom available!


I'm a framebuilder and I know eom is very sketchy stuff. There are much better alternatives for ww steel. Eom is pretty brittle, it has low elongation. It is just a heat treated version of deda's sat/zero uno steel and the joints anneal during welding. The butts are also weird. They're just tapered. The more you cut them down, the thinner they get. They spec 0.6 0.4 0.6mm butts on they're website but you end up with 0.5mm ends once it's cut. You can do much better than this stuff.
I definatly would not go for a complete eom tubeset but I do like the downtube shapes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:39 pm 
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in the industry
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Posts: 2898
Location: London, UK
spin110 wrote:
I'm a framebuilder and I know eom is very sketchy stuff. There are much better alternatives for ww steel. Eom is pretty brittle, it has low elongation. It is just a heat treated version of deda's sat/zero uno steel and the joints anneal during welding. The butts are also weird. They're just tapered. The more you cut them down, the thinner they get. They spec 0.6 0.4 0.6mm butts on they're website but you end up with 0.5mm ends once it's cut. You can do much better than this stuff.
I definatly would not go for a complete eom tubeset but I do like the downtube shapes.

My Pegoretti Marcelo is over 4 years old, has been crashed a couple of times and is still as true as the day Dario built it. Sub 17lbs, only carbon parts are forks, pin and saddle rails. Bullet proof build and rides like an alloy frame can only dream about! :D
Out of interest do you build for a living or for a hobby?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:43 pm 
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in the industry
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Posts: 2898
Location: London, UK
King Weel wrote:
Check Vanilla bikes.

In general: get a frame made out of SAT 16.5 EOM, lightest, strongest steeltubing. Pegoretti is very nice and custom available!

This is a respectable forum, please refrain from pedalling PORN :wink:
Without doubt the prettiest finishing I have ever seen, but I couldn't bring myself to take one out on the road and get it dirty or god forbid scratched!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:03 pm
Posts: 113
Right now I build a little on the side. This isn't my bread and butter. I used to work with a local framebuilder: http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005/feb/pendon.htm
I am not saying eom is bad. It's still much better than most Al stuff. I just think that for the money you can do better.


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 Post subject: WW steel
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:08 pm
Posts: 2832
Location: Boulder, Colorado
I have heard a number of great things about using True Temper's S3 steel. We looked into it as a possability for our company, but chose to stick with Ti rather than branch out.

If you can find it AerMet (think that's the right spelling) makes a fantastic steel bike. And there are a few people who have some of it lying around in tube form. It's rare, difficult to work with and expensive - but if you can get ahold of it chances are you'll think it's worth it.

The key is to find a great builder and then trust them. Anyone can take a superlight tubeset and make a superlight bike. A great builder will make a WW steel bike that's worth its weight in gold, where a poorly-built one won't be worth a bucket of yak spit.

And don't buy a frame for the finishing quality, buy it for the build quality, precision and workmanship. There are plenty of great custom builders who will be happy to have the painter of your choice finish the frame for you if you want something special.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:03 pm
Posts: 113
Aermet is very nice. It has a higher strength to weight ratio than 6/4 Ti. It was only available in 0.5mm straight gauge and the only source I know of it now is asking 100$/foot!. Cartech is not producing any bike frame tubing anymore.
I don't think the absolute lightest tubes will necessarily make the best frame. Find a good builder and make smart choices. Sub 1300g steel frames are cool but they're not the best route for everybody.
I would rather have a little extra weight on my frame than really heavy parts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:51 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:55 am
Posts: 942
Location: "On the other side of the pine lands", NY
Columbus Spirit or Life, guys. Zona Megatube if you're on the heavy side.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:47 am
Posts: 1097
Location: somewere floating between here and the other side
with out anny form of doubt i can tell you there is no better bike than a marcelo ........
well at least for me i had a whole heap of bikes as iam a mechanic working in a bikeshop, but the marcelo i have makes me smile all day, i know understand the older customers we have that walk in with their 20 year old vitus frames, they bought it and bought the best !!

the bike is in the what do you ride topic i belive somewere in the 20-25 pages

if u chose something else i would liketo advise you to stay away from aero tubing an that crap..
btw whats youre body height and weight ?

on the serotta forum their is a lot of pegoretti talk aswell.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:30 am 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
i know understand the older customers we have that walk in with their 20 year old vitus frames, they bought it and bought the best !!


Funny you'd mention Vitus....
In the region where I live there used to be a Vitus dealer and old Vitus bikes can be bought for peanuts over here.

So, I wonder, what magical properties do these bikes posess that other more earthly two wheelers do not?
I hear names such as Pegoretti, Marcello and now Vitus dropped with such respect for the old masters that I'm tempted to get my hands on one but would like to know what to expect....
What is it I should look for or is it rather obvious?

Ciao and TIA, :wink:

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