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 Post subject: dura ace 9-10speed
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:21 am
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Location: belgium
Did a search but didn't find what i was looking for...
Will a dura ace 9sp derailleur work on a 10sp system if i change the pulleys???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:51 pm 
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Location: Tucson, Az.
It will work even if you don't change the pulleys

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5837
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
Will a dura ace 9sp derailleur work on a 10sp system if i change the pulleys???


Shimano uses a fully indexed shifting system, i.e. the shifter pulls a preset amount of cable as it moves.
Usually, if you have the 10 speed shifter, cassette and chain it will work fine after just a little der. cable adjustment.

Ciao, :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:11 pm
Posts: 2520
Location: Frederica (Denmark)
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,

Quote:
Will a dura ace 9sp derailleur work on a 10sp system if i change the pulleys???


Shimano uses a fully indexed shifting system, i.e. the shifter pulls a preset amount of cable as it moves.
Usually, if you have the 10 speed shifter, cassette and chain it will work fine after just a little der. cable adjustment.

Ciao, :wink:


I'm pretty sure he already knew that.

By changing the pulley wheels. he is likely concerned over the chain width difference between 9 and 10 speed (10 speed is slightly narrower).

Madcow is correct. It will work. I'm currently using a DA 10 speed rear mech with 9 speed chain and 9 speed chainrings...

shifting is fine...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5837
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
I'm pretty sure he already knew that.


Unfortunately I'm not that good at mindreading.....

Quote:
By changing the pulley wheels. he is likely concerned over the chain width difference between 9 and 10 speed (10 speed is slightly narrower).


So if the chain of the 10S is narrower what possible problem could there be?
Both use 11T pulley wheels anyway....

Quote:
I'm currently using a DA 10 speed rear mech with 9 speed chain and 9 speed chainrings...


Fine but Tommy want to do the opposite from what I understand.

Ciao, :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:48 pm 
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Posts: 609
Location: belgium
Quote:
I'm pretty sure he already knew that.
By changing the pulley wheels. he is likely concerned over the chain width difference between 9 and 10 speed (10 speed is slightly narrower).

:exactly:

Quote:
So if the chain of the 10S is narrower what possible problem could there be?
Both use 11T pulley wheels anyway....

maybe it would affect shifting performance? :noidea:

Quote:
Fine but Tommy want to do the opposite from what I understand.


Yep 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5837
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
maybe it would affect shifting performance?


Well, you can give me a Shimano 8 speed RD if you must and it can even have 10T pulleys, I'll still have it shift just as well as the original 10S part.

Really now, there should be no problem whatsoever, none.
To understand why it works I told you about the fully indexed system Shimano uses as that's what clarifies it. 8)

Ciao, :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 1323
Location: Arizona
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,

Quote:
maybe it would affect shifting performance?


Well, you can give me a Shimano 8 speed RD if you must and it can even have 10T pulleys, I'll still have it shift just as well as the original 10S part.

Really now, there should be no problem whatsoever, none.
To understand why it works I told you about the fully indexed system Shimano uses as that's what clarifies it. 8)

Ciao, :wink:


I have had shifting problems with 8 speed DuraAce RD when used on 9 and 10 speed systems. The shifting problems were fixed by using a 10 speed RD. If it were as simple as the shifter pulls a certain amount of cable per shift and any RD will work. Then any derailer should work including Campy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5837
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
Then any derailer should work including Campy.


As it usually does.....
Maybe I've been lucky and you have been unlucky but you'd be surprised at what you can get to work to perfection with a little attention to set up.....

Anyway, in this case I know with absolute certainty that there's no problem.


Ciao, :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:01 pm
Posts: 662
Location: New Hampshire
bikemesenger wrote:
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,

Quote:
maybe it would affect shifting performance?


Well, you can give me a Shimano 8 speed RD if you must and it can even have 10T pulleys, I'll still have it shift just as well as the original 10S part.

Really now, there should be no problem whatsoever, none.
To understand why it works I told you about the fully indexed system Shimano uses as that's what clarifies it. 8)

Ciao, :wink:


I have had shifting problems with 8 speed DuraAce RD when used on 9 and 10 speed systems. The shifting problems were fixed by using a 10 speed RD. If it were as simple as the shifter pulls a certain amount of cable per shift and any RD will work. Then any derailer should work including Campy.

This is not so. If the cable fixing bolt is in a different place on various derailleurs, if the paralellogram is a different size or shape, etc. then a given amount of cable pull will affect the derailleur differently. But assuming the geometry of the derailleurs is the same or very similar (such as between Dura-Ace 9 and 10 speed) then a given amount of cable pull will move the derailleur the same amount. Hence Dura-Ace derailleurs will work for both 9 and 10 speed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:39 pm
Posts: 1008
Location: Des Moines, IA
Yes, but the new rear dir is better for reason other then just, "will it work"

The 10sp will work longer.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:09 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5837
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
The 10sp will work longer.


Question is, how much longer do you have to have it working?

Knowing that the only parts prone to wear and tear are the pulleys and if you're willing to replace them occasionally a RD of the quality of say Ultegra or DA will last for about twenty years, probably even more?

By that time I'm sure that group will be so outdated no one will even want to fit it on a new bike anyhow.....

I mean, why spend so much more on the DA for instance if the Ultegra offers the same performance and longevity bar perhaps a year or two extra?
Why fit the one specced for 10S if the 9S is the same thing?

Quote:
If the cable fixing bolt is in a different place on various derailleurs, if the paralellogram is a different size or shape, etc. then a given amount of cable pull will affect the derailleur differently.


I agree but most Shimano RDs that are used for racing bikes do have the cable fixing in the same place and on the few older ones that don't you can easily reroute the cable and it will still work fine just the same.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that you can often mix various parts of different groups from the same manufacturer provided you know how to go about it.
Much more so than even the more knowledgeable bikemechanics are willing to admit.
The manufacturer certainly is not going to put that in print for you, that for sure..... :lol:

Ciao, :wink:

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