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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:23 pm 
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Location: Pittsburgh
I was looking at the KinLin XR-300 rims and was just wondering what the lightest but stiffest build I could do given my size (75kg). Any hubs..any price. What spoke count would I need in the front and back? I thought these rims looked nice but I'm also open to other rim ideas.

Thanks

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Last edited by gumgardner on Fri May 14, 2010 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:23 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Location: NJ, USA
I weight 90kg (200 lbs) and I had a set (Niobium 30's which I beleive are the same) that I had built up with Tune Mig 70 18 spoke front, radially laced headspokes in, Tune Mag 180 24 spoke rear, laced 2x, Sapim CX Ray spokes all around. This was a great, fast, stiff wheelset (regret getting rid of them). The set came in at 1375g if I remember correctly.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:07 am 
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Have a look at the XR-270 as it's a few grams lighter per rim and has very similar stiffness and durability.

At your weight an 18 or 20h front and 24h rear is suitably stiff with CX-Rays / Aeroiltes. If weight is the primary concern then Exralight or Tune hubs would get the weight down to the low 1300g area.

I had a pair of XR-300's laced to a M5 front hub and Mag180 rear which were somewhere around 1350 grams (sorry, it was a few years ago and I can't find a recorded weight.)

ergot had a pair of XR-300's around 1280g using a modified Tune hubset and titanium spokes. IIRC he rebuilt the rear wheel with stiffer spokes and added some weight though.

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:02 am 
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Do you recall how much it cost for everything?

robertg wrote:
I weight 90kg (200 lbs) and I had a set (Niobium 30's which I beleive are the same) that I had built up with Tune Mig 70 18 spoke front, radially laced headspokes in, Tune Mag 180 24 spoke rear, laced 2x, Sapim CX Ray spokes all around. This was a great, fast, stiff wheelset (regret getting rid of them). The set came in at 1375g if I remember correctly.


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:55 am 
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Location: NJ, USA
I don't remember exactly but I think they were around $700, but this was a couple of years ago and prices most definitely have gone up.


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:03 pm 
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Location: Islip, NY
For your weight I would use 18 or 20 front and 24 rear.

Look through Fairwheel's hub review for weight/cost.

Use CX-Rays, not ti spokes.

Use alloy nipples.

That's at light as you will get.

I also agree that the 27mm rim will save a few grams if that is still an option.

The set I built that was referenced above was with American Classic 420 rims which were similar in weight to the 30mm. I still use that set from time to time and they are 18 front and 16 rear CX_Rays with 8 Race spokes on the NDS (triplet pattern). I didn't weight that set since the rebuild, but I could when I get home. The ti spokes made the wheelset unacceptable to me.

-Eric

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:14 pm 
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Location: Germany
I recently built uo the XR-300 with some nice hubs and ended up with 1303 grams. --> now i have some lighter rims (production variations), so that 1290 grams are possibe.

The set consists:
Kin Lin XR-300: custom drilled for internal positioned nippels (I drilled them by myself)
Sapim CX Ray straight pull black, 20/24 pcs.
Sapim SILS alu nipples
Extralite Extrahub SPX front hub and SPM rear hub (weights: 47,29 and 130,20 grams --> measured on laboratory scale)

Here are some "on scale" photos. I may give you some more if you're interested

Image



Image

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:56 pm 
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The best hub combination that you are going to be able to lace onto an XR300 would probably be the Alchemy ELF/ORC. They have a very wide flange spacing which will provide for maximum lateral stiffness. Also, the machining tolerances on the Alchemys are much higher than Tune, Extralite, or American Classic. If you want a wheel that is uber-stiff, light, and most importantly durable, than this is the set. I think that an ideal spoke count would be 20/24. I would have to advise against going with an 18 hole up front as suggested above because you said you wanted a STIFF wheel, and the 2 extra spokes definetly wont hurt things.


Price: $858, 1429 grams

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:49 pm 
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You set these requirements so they can't realistically be met. I'm sure it's partly my misunderstanding, but also it seems to be missing some indication of which elements are more important. It sounds as though you want the lightest and at the same time the stiffest wheel. Those two stand pretty opposite from each other. The lightest using that rim is about 1250grams(Extralite/M5/Pillar/20-24.) with the stiffest at about 1500(Alchemy/comp/32h) You can't have both. My take on this is that you want something that is a balance in between these two, but it's important to indicate which way you lean. Basically is weight more important or stiffness more important.

If I just had to through out a balance somewhere in the middle, I'd say XR270 or 300, Tune 180/45, and CxRay or Aerolites, 20/24. Not the lightest(right about 1300-1340grams.) nor the stiffest, but a nice balance depending on your use and riding style.

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:27 am 
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If your spending that much money on the hubs, why not get some nice rims instead & find a better middle ground on the choice of hubs? These suggested hubs are high end & potentially not the most reliable - more event type hub sets when you start talking about extralite.

Normally when guys are talking about / looking at alu rims they've still got one foot left in reliability / VFM land which is not where supa light hub sets are coming from really.

If it had to be clincher & you'd got an open mind on budget I'd give a serious look @ carbon clinchers in some form. The weights are pretty good & I get the feeling for racing / moderate training duties they'd do the job well enough. Its a compromise sort of thing, but it would give better results I think personally than what could be turned out using alu rims. You can spend big on carbon clinchers - rims only - (up to £1600 odd) but equally you can do it economically if that's what you want to do (£300 ish). At the lower end of the scale, you could certainly be more selective on the hubs & end up at the same sort of price but @ lower overall weight & perhaps better stiffness if you've got a deeper section rim.

You've not said what your using the potential wheels for, let alone getting into a debate on whether you need them to be optimally more light/stiff etc... A bit more info on what your potential usages are would probably give a better response?


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:07 am 
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mr_tim wrote:
At the lower end of the scale, you could certainly be more selective on the hubs & end up at the same sort of price but @ lower overall weight & perhaps better stiffness if you've got a deeper section rim.


Deep and cheap does by no means give you a stiff rim. If you want to pay less for a carbon rim, you are inevitably going to get something that is of questionable construction (not to mention much flexier). I would advise that you would be much better off with a high end aluminum rim rather than a crappy carbon one.

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:14 am 
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I weigh 80kg. have a pair of Ligero Model 1 wheels. XR 270 rear, XR-200 front. 20-x24 spokes. 1394gms. $850
Light, stiff, and they roll oh so nicely.

Ligero's hubs aren't the lightest. You could drop some gms on this build with C4 hubs.


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:22 am 
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Zen Cyclery wrote:
I would advise that you would be much better off with a high end aluminum rim rather than a crappy carbon one.


Well I guess the OP needs to ask around to find out if the low end rims are any good or not, if he was going to consider them. A wide statement like yours challenges everything & I'm guessing that you haven't actually seen every rim on the market to back that up?

Rims such as those being bought under the groupbuy thread are xpace & they seem pretty good to me both in building & usage. (I'm using tubs though mind - the group buy guys should be feeding back on their experiences in a month or so I would guess & that covers a range of different types of rims).

I've used these semi-aero alu clinchers in the past & its a compromise based rim choice. More spokes needed & less aero benefit than can be had at similiar or lower weights if going with carbon. Personally I don't like the narrow width & how it balloons out a 23mm tire / the brake track is kinda soft on the alu rim, so I'd probably take my own advice & go carbon if I was doing it over again.

If we're talking about building something stiff, hub flange sizing/spacing & spoke type/lacing/pattern are likely to affect the stiffness more than the rim.


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 4:29 pm 
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Mr-tim, I think it's a bit silly to give someone advice about a product that you don't seem to know much about as yet?
These rims you talk of?.......aren't they the same ones that we haven't seen yet?
XR300 is a known quantity and recognised for it's qualities?

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 4:47 pm 
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I'd agree with Ergott, Madcow & Zen Cyclery on this one. I did actually spend time the other night looking at Madcows hub review and came to the same conclusion as he stated. The only thing for me is if I was going to push the budget & buy (what I consider to be) expensive hubs, I'd push the budget a little (alot) further and get a higher spec clincher rim.

Which brings me to my (off topic) question - but what is a higher spec clincher rim (in Aluminium)? Or is it another material?

Seamus


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Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 4:47 pm 


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