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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:38 am
Posts: 414
prendrefeu wrote:

CK is nice, but overrated. It's just a headset, folks. I've seen and known guys who've run road races with only one bearing without problems, the other was just a washer. Sure they didn't win, but they didn't DFL either. It's just a headset, not turning nearly as often as your BB or hubs.




Totally agree. Chris King is all hype. Very overrated. The newer Cane Creek headset has better seals and a better design on the top race. Hincapie's carbon steerer broke in Paris Roubaix a few years ago because of the King headset. The threadless king headsets top race/ring/whatever it is called will put a mark in a threadless steerer tube every single time. This scoring mark after repeated cycles is a huge safety issue on any carbon steerer.


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:56 am
Posts: 4907
bones wrote:
Hincapie's carbon steerer broke in Paris Roubaix a few years ago because of the King headset. The threadless king headsets top race/ring/whatever it is called will put a mark in a threadless steerer tube every single time. This scoring mark after repeated cycles is a huge safety issue on any carbon steerer.

Except for the fact that Hincapie's broken steerer wasn't made of carbon but aluminum alloy.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/200 ... _postbikes
Image


http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2 ... k/IMG_9943
Quote:
Image
Something borrowed - the Bontrager OCLV carbon fork is in fact an item borrowed from Trek's Satellite
range because of its slightly more laidback rake and aluminium steerer.


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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:33 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:36 am
Posts: 1082
Location: Denmark
So I am tempted to buy one of these:
MORTOP HI-65 semi integrated extralite headset (black) //66grams(top cap & bolt included)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

EXTRALITE Steuersatz Scal Head semi-integriert nur // 45g
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

Token OMEGA-T1 Titanium Integrated Bike Headsets 1-1/8" 45 mm ceramic bearings //65 grams (0.14 lbs) (w/o Cap)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Token-OMEGA-T ... 19bc0d47b6

TOKEN OMEGA-A26 INTEGRATED CARBON BIKE HEADSET //54g(w/o cap)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOKEN-OMEGA-A26-I ... 5ad671f16b

TOKEN OMEGA-A1 INTEGRATED BIKE HEAD SET //58g(w/o cap)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOKEN-OMEGA-A1-IN ... 4a9df1a585

Any thoughts or oppinions?

_________________
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Parlee Z3SL:
Argon18 E112
TREK TTX7.0
S-Works Transition
Pinarello F4:13


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:56 am
Posts: 4907
First you will have to figure out what type of headset fits your bike.
Some of the ones you blink to are Campagnolo compatible, but others are Cane Creek compatible.
These are different standards and won't fit the same frames.

Try to read Cane Creek's headset guide:
Quote:
What type of headset will fit my bike?

A common question and we've put together a step-by-step guide to help you determine what size and standard your bike requires. http://www.canecreek.com/tech-determining-standards


Last edited by 2 wheels on Sat May 15, 2010 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:36 am
Posts: 1082
Location: Denmark
Thanks.
I have 1-1/8 inch fork and the two bearings read:
"Cane Creek 1-1/8" 36`x45`
HSS20131 STAINLESS"

`= a "degree" sign

What new headset should I get?

I have added some pictures.
Attachment:
150520101346 (Large).jpg
150520101346 (Large).jpg [ 110.45 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]

Is this a part of the fork or is it a part of the headset? (can I take it off the fork?) :
Attachment:
150520101347 (Large).jpg
150520101347 (Large).jpg [ 133.55 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Reads:
Cane Creek 1-1/8" 36`x45`
HSS20131 STAINLESS"
Attachment:
150520101348 (Large).jpg
150520101348 (Large).jpg [ 128.83 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]

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Scott Plasma 3 premium
Parlee Z3SL:
Argon18 E112
TREK TTX7.0
S-Works Transition
Pinarello F4:13


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:54 pm
Posts: 394
Location: USA
Eigner, your bike uses an integrated headset that follows the Cane Creek "IS" standard. The headset comprises 5 main parts: 2 bearings, 2 crown races and a top cover (plus top-cap & bolt). Your photo of the fork shows the lower crown race from your old headset that is set on the fork steerer. Its not something you'll easily remove yourself, at least not without potentially damaging your fork. Its possible that you could reuse that crown race with a new headset if the new headset has a bearing with the same inner angle and diameter (outside dimensions will be the same, but inner may not), but better to have your LBS remove it and install the new one.

The Token Omega A1 you linked to will work for you (A2, or A3 will not). Also the Cane Creek IS8 or IS3, the FSA Orbit IS, Extralite IntegrHead, KCNC Morion M1 or Radiant R1 will also do.

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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:36 am
Posts: 1082
Location: Denmark
Thanks for your great reply dwaharvey. Its a jungle out there :shock:

So of the ones I listed only the Token Omega A1 will work?
I just need new bearings can I get new of the ones I allready have? Do they come in a ceramic version ? :wink:

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Parlee Z3SL:
Argon18 E112
TREK TTX7.0
S-Works Transition
Pinarello F4:13


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:56 am
Posts: 4907
eigner wrote:
I have 1-1/8 inch fork and the two bearings read:
"Cane Creek 1-1/8" 36`x45`
HSS20131 STAINLESS"

eigner wrote:
I just need new bearings can I get new of the ones I already have?

You can buy the Cane Creek HSS20131 stainless steel bearings on-line directly from Cane Creek's webshop: http://store.canecreek.com/products/pro ... 1739.0.1.1
They also sell the HSS20131 Plain Steel version: http://store.canecreek.com/products/pro ... 1739.0.1.1
And the HSS20131 Black Oxide Plain Steel version http://store.canecreek.com/products/pro ... 1739.0.1.1

HSS20131 is the same stainless steel bearings as used in the more expensive Cane Creek S-8 and IS-8 headsets.
HSS20130 is the same size bearing, but a cheaper non-stainless version, but also of a stronger type of steel. This is the bearing used in the cheaper Cane Creek ZS-2 and HSS20130K black oxide plain steel version is used in S-3, S-3 plus 5, IS-3 and ZS-3.

You can also order them from some on-line dealers, e.g. Chain Reaction Cycles in the UK:

HSS20131, £31.90 /pair: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=11267
Image

HSS20130, £14.89 /pair: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=11266
Image

Sources:
http://store.canecreek.com/home/search/ ... q=HSS20131
http://www.pvdwiki.com/index.php?title= ... eek_S-3.3F
Quote:
The BEST Headset

The Best

The finest, greatest performing headset that I have ever owned is also one of the best values, the Cane Creek S-3. Commonly available for less than $30.

Why not a Chris King headset?

Back in the day of threaded 1" steerers, only two real performance options existed for bicycles, the Campagnolo Record HS-01OR Headset or the Chris King Two Nut headset. Both were fantastic options for both on and off road.

Then came threadless and oversized threadless steerers and other new developements. Chris King was one of the first to adopt the new systems, but Dia-Compe USA (now Cane Creek) made key developments in the threadless headset (AheadSet®) and holds the patent on the design using a split compression ring (U.S. Patent #5095770). This split compression ring is how the system is able to maintain concentricity among the mating parts.

The biggest initial problem with the Dia-Compe parts was overall percived quality. Others followed and improved their designs, but for many years, the Chris King NoThreadset headset was the only quality choice available, but things have changed.

The real Achilles Heel of the Chris King design is the way that the top plate is held concentric to the steerer tube to avoid tresspassing on the Dia-Compe patent. An o-ring is used to hold the top plate centered. The problem with this design is that when strong enough forces are introduced to the fork, the o-ring gives a little and the steerer is pushed off center of the headset.

Many people will see:

  • Wear marks on their aluminium steerers
  • A wear pattern on the taper of the base plate
  • A wear pattern on the taper of the top plate
  • Wear between the top plate and the first spacer or stem if the delrin shim is not in place (you were wondering what it was for?)
Image
One possible argument for this is that the o-ring acts almost like a shock absorber for the bearings, transfering wear to more cheaply replaced parts. This is probably why the bearings of a King last so long, but I don't buy that this is a good thing.

King's solution for all these problems; replace the o-ring annually. While this may help with some of the symptoms, it does nothing to solve the real problem. King needs to change their design and pay Dia-Compe USA so that they can use the patent.

Keep in mind that I have a lot of respect for what King has done for cycleing and the quality and products that he has brought to market. I just wish that the design for the headset gets fixed.

Pure Speculation

George Hincappie crashed out of the 2006 Paris-Roubaix due to a broken steerer tube at the top of the tube. Many blame the fracture to a previous crash in the day, but the presence of the king headset and a look at where the brake happened, I question all that.
Image

What is so great about the Cane Creek S-3?

The cheaper option to the Cane Creek S-8, the Cane Creek S-3 is about the greatest value and performer on the market.

  • First, the price. This headset is commonly available for around $26, 1/5 the cost of a Chris King headset. An S-8 will set you back around $55, twice the cost.

  • Second, the materials. The S-8 uses stainless steel races (Cane Creek Part #HSS20131, SAE 51440C Stainless) rather than the S-3's "bearing steel" races (Cane Creek Part #HSS20130, SAE 52100 steel), making it a finer headset in some ways, but at a cost. The S-1 claims to use "steel" races to imply a downgrade, but the part number on the bearing is the same as in the S-3. SAE 52100 is a much stronger bearing matirial than SAE 51440C Stainless steel. The hardness of SAE 52100 is 60-64 HRC, compared to SAE 51440C's 58-62 HRC. The advantage to SAE 51440C Stainless Steel comes when dealing with corrosive environments. This may be a problem for some riders in some terrains, practiceing particular maintanance routines. To find out, run the SAE 52100 bearing headset and see if corrosion can be avoided, if not, go to SAE 51440C stainless. It is a $25 gamble that the better steel will be just fine. The King headset is supplied with SAE 51440C stainless steel bearings. The Cane Creek bearings are made by the same company that makes FSA bearings, Tien Hsin Industries Co., Ltd.

  • Third, the performance. This headset like the King, use quality sealed cartridge bearings to function, but rather than use an o-ring, the cane creek (like many other competitors) use a compression ring to hold the steerer in line with the headset. See Schematic. This design holds solid and does not move like the King design. The increase in performance is noticable.

These three points make the Cane Creek a hands down winner for best headset.

The only thing that is a drawback of the headset is the promenent logos and the lack of color choice.

The bearings

...


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:14 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Asheville NC
Cane Creek 110 is the best headset on the market. Their top race system is far superior to King, and the spacers are brilliant. With a 110 year warranty and made in USA what more could you ask for.


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:31 pm
Posts: 347
eigner wrote:
I have looked at http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68
And I think I have a ""Integrated- Angular Contact System" I have 1-1/8 inch fork and the two bearings read:
"Cane Creek 1-1/8" 36x45
HSS20131 STAINLESS"

What new headset should I get?


look on the cane creek website or call them. IIRC they have an extensive database of frames and which of their headsets works for that frame.

That said, I believe the critical specs for a headset are the type (integrated), the diameter (1 1/8) and the bearing angles (36 and 45 for yours ... some are 45 and 45). I'm not sure if there's any other specs though, but their website will either school you completely or give you a database and/or contact number.


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