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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 8:00 pm 
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This is my solution to using cheap,light and simple road front der's for top pull frames:


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 8:14 pm 
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Samu Ilonen wrote:
Those ti-stems are raising popularity , 120mm is 113-118g and they are safer than light alloy stems. And stiff enought for racing for big boys...


How do they compare with the alloy stems?

Safer and stronger.
But less stiff and more comfortable than the alloy stems?


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Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 8:14 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 8:25 pm 
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Next I do few prototypes for mtb/SS bikes. X-stiff versions...

As I not light I need stiff parts anyway and my currend ti-stem is ~year old, it ~stiff as my previus 2002 Ritchey Pro stem. Over sizing makes wonders...

Sand blast version @ 117g:


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 11:17 pm 
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Hi,

Quote:
How do they compare with the alloy stems?


Marginally heavier than the lightest alloys and magnesium but far stronger and often with better damping characteristics as well.

Cheers, :wink:

P.S. Expect to see more Ti frames in the near future.....

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:03 am 
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Samu. how long is that stem, at 117g? Pretty damn good! Is it a 31.8 barclamp or standard? It looks 26.0. But the barrel, yes, definitely OS...very nice!

@ fdegrove: what do you mean "P.S. Expect to see more Ti frames in the near future....."?
...there are many ti frames and many of us are very happily riding them now and for many years hence.... :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:13 am 
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Hi,

Quote:
@ fdegrove: what do you mean "P.S. Expect to see more Ti frames in the near future....."?
...there are many ti frames and many of us are very happily riding them now and for many years hence....


What I mean is that as the price gap between full carbon frames and Ti frames is closing we'll see more people going for the Ti frames.
As you suggest, Ti frames are likely longer lasting, hence.... :wink:

Ciao, 8)

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 1:23 am 
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Got it.
But even so, already a fully custom 3/2.5 frame like mine costs less than a C40/C50, CR1, 585, and definitely less than Calfee, Parlee, Crumpton, etc.
And as far as quality.... :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 1:53 am 
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Hi,

Quote:
But even so, already a fully custom 3/2.5 frame like mine costs less than a C40/C50, CR1, 585, and definitely less than Calfee, Parlee, Crumpton, etc.


Sure...I know at least one local framebuilder that could pull the same trick for his customers as well.

Just imagine hydroforming, double and triple butted piping techniques being applied to Ti frames, add a truly monocoque structure, Ti BB and what have you and you'll end up with a frighteningly expensive bicycle just the same.

Somehow that kind of mass production is not likely to happen as the bicycle industry would have shot itself majestically in the foot.
The reason is as simple as it is obvious: once you mass market a virtually indestructible, almost perfect product you can shut your doors and file for chapter 11. You're finished.

Within that context and though I do believe we'll be seeing more Ti bikes, they'll most certainly remain specialist territory and will carry a price tag to match.

With that wisdom in mind, if I would envisage to have a bike made to order that would be kept around for say twenty years or over and used for leisurely purposes, I'd most certainly think of a classic bike a la Gios but with a Ti frame and other goodies that are of proven quality.

Even if such a bike costed 10.000 USD + it would still be a bargain considering it could well last a lifetime.....

As you can tell, I'm a sucker for quality. I can be at awe in front of a simple well machined bolt just as easily as I'd admire all the high-tech stuff going into the next spaceshuttle....


Ciao, :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 4:08 am 
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I don't understand what you're getting at....
I don't consider ti as "specialist bikes" at all, but I do think it is an excellent material. My frame, fully custom, cost $1900. Hardly in carbon territory....
And as far as all that jive about "technology", I believe that half of it is marketing, really. Hydroforming is an economic issue, I don't believe it results in a "better performing" frame, not across the board.
But then again, I think round tubes, on a frame, are just absolutely fine.

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:40 am 
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cadence90 wrote:
Samu. how long is that stem, at 117g? Pretty damn good! Is it a 31.8 barclamp or standard? It looks 26.0. But the barrel, yes, definitely OS...very nice!


In pix it is 26.0 but in my bike it's 31.8mm and is 118g. I have done both as needet. Clamp for bar is classic non-opening with 2 bolts for safety/rigidy (looks very "clean" in bike comparing those massive 4 bolt alloy stems) and allows excellent and safe grip for carbon bars. Same for head tube but it has 10mm spacer build in for non-cutted round connecting point to headset and for extra stiffnes so it's really even few g's lighter if you count that 10mm spacer.. All them are 120mm....I design bikes to use that lenght so there is +-10mm possibility adjusting stem lenght if customer get old,starts racing etc. reason to need lenght of his riding position without looking ugly. It's sad that I see in this webside very nice bike parts put together to made very ugly bikes...

I like classic looking bikes that woundn't irrate my yeas on dimension or color mixes...I like this very much:

Image

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Last edited by Samu Ilonen on Tue May 10, 2005 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:45 am 
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I like it too, maybe the bike could use some more color in the decals?


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:51 am 
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Samu Ilonen wrote:
It's sad that I see in this webside very nice bike parts put together to made very ugly bikes...
Very true....

Samu Ilonen wrote:
I like classic looking bikes that woundn't irrate my yeas on dimension or color mixes...
So do you design only level top tube frames? And why, then, any rise on the stem? No rise (-17, more or less) is the most beautiful, by far.

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:56 am 
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Yep, my own bikes are only one color classic black decals but I do decals as customer wants, call that 100% custom.... I have done blue ones for matching blue Chris King HS....I always design bikes for CK HS's. For stackheights, you know.

Here is some color:

Image

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 6:07 am 
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cadence90 wrote:
Samu Ilonen wrote:
It's sad that I see in this webside very nice bike parts put together to made very ugly bikes...
Very true....

Samu Ilonen wrote:
I like classic looking bikes that woundn't irrate my yeas on dimension or color mixes...
So do you design only level top tube frames? And why, then, any rise on the stem? No rise (-17, more or less) is the most beautiful, by far.


My own stem has -17 "rice"...

I design bike this way: I draw seat and bar needet positions, then stem, needet head tube then desent seat tube and last top tube. Some time slope is needet if riders legs are short and he needs tall posititon for bar. I have done one cross bike for commuting to work with raised head tube Ala Seven but I don't like it personally, few decree slope would be nicer?

But I do as asked...

This is 6 decree slope because 70cm frame would be SO big...this is now 64cm C-T. And yes, those wheels are 700ccc...40mm studded tyres. Frame is ~2 years old design.


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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 6:07 am 


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 6:10 am 
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Samu, 2 questions:
are the seatstays slightly curved on these frames, or is it just the photos?
and, what size (diameter) are the chainstays?

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