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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:40 pm
Posts: 43
Location: Ever Changing......
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Actually, I think Jobst is saying the elbow in is less likely to cause clearance issues with rear der. . . . under load, the tightening, inter-laced, cross will be pulled IN if the elbow of the pulling spoke is IN. . . . but I'm not sure if there's a statement of quality or correctness there, just one of the physics of the situation. . . .


I don't think the elbow itself is at issue since it is always covered by the cogs, but rather the crossing, which is generally just outside the radius of the cogs, and therefor potentially near the derailleur. Brandt and Brown both indicate that a build with pull spokes elbows in causes the spokes to move away from the derailleur under load. I was taking that as advocating a particular build style, and that that was the style that Mike Garcia used to build the "Mongrels"


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 9:58 pm 
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cadence90 wrote:
Looking at the wheel from the cassette side, say, trailing spokes are the ones going backwards or counterclockwise, pointing towards the rear?


Yes, that's correct.


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Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 9:58 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:52 am
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Thanks, you're a pro and it's nice to learn from one! :)

So, revising the previous description I posted:
My DT mtb wheels, also built by Garcia, have the same orientation as SL's wheels, trailing spokes heads-out.
However, my Dave Thomas Speed Dream road wheels are the opposite, trailing spokes heads-in.
My FRM road wheels (for sale BTW) are the opposite, trailing spokes heads-in.
My Spada Stiletto-Lights (for sale BTW) are straight-pull, but the trailing spoke is to the inside, so if j-bend the trailing spokes would be heads-in.

I must admit the debate over which method is "better" (if one method is such) is still confusing to me though...it almost seems as if it's a philosophical difference as well as technical, and even somewhat dependent on the particular hubs, spokes and desired qualities, as opposed to being an absolute.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
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Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
it almost seems as if it's a philosophical difference as well as technical, and even somewhat dependent on the particular hubs, spokes and desired qualities, as opposed to being an absolute.


An absolute it definetely isn't.
Basically it all depends where you want to maximize rigidity, where you want to allow for some flexing etc.
Old school method is based around the thinking (correct as it is) that the wider you can put the elbow of the spokes across the hub the better.
Naturally on some occasions you can justify to compromise that area for a greater benefit elsewhere.

Wheels, just like tyres, are impossible to build right for all thinkable applications so inevitably you end up with a set that excels in a number of areas but possibly sucks big time elsewhere.

It all depends what you want from it really; making the right choices for a race is part of the black art that can make the difference between winning or losing.....

Cheers, :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:52 am
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I'd love to know, as I'm think about having Mike build the same set but with 32 spokes in the back. I'd probably have ordered them, but thought I'd wait to get your initial report!
BH


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:01 pm
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Location: Colorado
Here's an update, the wheels rock! They are laterally stiffer then my DA 7800's!!! Best 1333g of wheels I've ever owned.

Only 150~ miles, but so far I am impressed. Not harsh, laterally stiff and they roll. lol

The wheels ( along with some Ti upgrades :twisted: ) has lightend my ride to 6440g or 14.19lbs.

Sub 14 on the way.

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 2:28 am 
Superlite wrote:
Here's an update, the wheels rock! They are laterally stiffer then my DA 7800's!!! Best 1333g of wheels I've ever owned.


Is that one of your 'temporary' recommendations which you make in order to justify the purchase? Or is that what you were told to beleive?

No prejudicial decisions, but your recommendations are 'worth' as much as a review by the fine men at PEZ. :lol:


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