My new "mongrels"

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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ifdeluxe
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by ifdeluxe

Actually, I think Jobst is saying the elbow in is less likely to cause clearance issues with rear der. . . . under load, the tightening, inter-laced, cross will be pulled IN if the elbow of the pulling spoke is IN. . . . but I'm not sure if there's a statement of quality or correctness there, just one of the physics of the situation. . . .


I don't think the elbow itself is at issue since it is always covered by the cogs, but rather the crossing, which is generally just outside the radius of the cogs, and therefor potentially near the derailleur. Brandt and Brown both indicate that a build with pull spokes elbows in causes the spokes to move away from the derailleur under load. I was taking that as advocating a particular build style, and that that was the style that Mike Garcia used to build the "Mongrels"

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divve
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by divve

cadence90 wrote:Looking at the wheel from the cassette side, say, trailing spokes are the ones going backwards or counterclockwise, pointing towards the rear?


Yes, that's correct.

by Weenie


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cadence90
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by cadence90

Thanks, you're a pro and it's nice to learn from one! :)

So, revising the previous description I posted:
My DT mtb wheels, also built by Garcia, have the same orientation as SL's wheels, trailing spokes heads-out.
However, my Dave Thomas Speed Dream road wheels are the opposite, trailing spokes heads-in.
My FRM road wheels (for sale BTW) are the opposite, trailing spokes heads-in.
My Spada Stiletto-Lights (for sale BTW) are straight-pull, but the trailing spoke is to the inside, so if j-bend the trailing spokes would be heads-in.

I must admit the debate over which method is "better" (if one method is such) is still confusing to me though...it almost seems as if it's a philosophical difference as well as technical, and even somewhat dependent on the particular hubs, spokes and desired qualities, as opposed to being an absolute.
"Gimondi è un eroe umano, che viene sconfitto ma che continua la sua corsa fino a tornare a vincere." - Enrico Ruggeri

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

it almost seems as if it's a philosophical difference as well as technical, and even somewhat dependent on the particular hubs, spokes and desired qualities, as opposed to being an absolute.


An absolute it definetely isn't.
Basically it all depends where you want to maximize rigidity, where you want to allow for some flexing etc.
Old school method is based around the thinking (correct as it is) that the wider you can put the elbow of the spokes across the hub the better.
Naturally on some occasions you can justify to compromise that area for a greater benefit elsewhere.

Wheels, just like tyres, are impossible to build right for all thinkable applications so inevitably you end up with a set that excels in a number of areas but possibly sucks big time elsewhere.

It all depends what you want from it really; making the right choices for a race is part of the black art that can make the difference between winning or losing.....

Cheers, :wink:
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

BH2005
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:52 am

by BH2005

I'd love to know, as I'm think about having Mike build the same set but with 32 spokes in the back. I'd probably have ordered them, but thought I'd wait to get your initial report!
BH

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Superlite
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:01 pm

by Superlite

Here's an update, the wheels rock! They are laterally stiffer then my DA 7800's!!! Best 1333g of wheels I've ever owned.

Only 150~ miles, but so far I am impressed. Not harsh, laterally stiff and they roll. lol

The wheels ( along with some Ti upgrades :twisted: ) has lightend my ride to 6440g or 14.19lbs.

Sub 14 on the way.

danielgillett

by danielgillett

Superlite wrote:Here's an update, the wheels rock! They are laterally stiffer then my DA 7800's!!! Best 1333g of wheels I've ever owned.


Is that one of your 'temporary' recommendations which you make in order to justify the purchase? Or is that what you were told to beleive?

No prejudicial decisions, but your recommendations are 'worth' as much as a review by the fine men at PEZ. :lol:

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