Wide rim technology Velocity A23, HED, Zipp 101

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NGMN
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by NGMN

Waldo wrote:
zebragonzo wrote:The 202 and 101 are basically the same shape but one's aluminium right?


Actually, the profiles are a fair amount different. The radii at the inner diameter differ as well as the curvature of the sidewall itself. We tested 101 prototypes in 28mm, 30mm, and 32mm depths, and with the varieties of profiles we tried we actually achieved the best results with the 30mm version.


I'm really not trying to be picky, but what tire was used for the testing? It seems to me your 28, 30 and 32 prototype rims could probably switch places depending on what tire is used.

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Waldo
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by Waldo

No worries, Arky. We really haven't made a determination on availability of the 101 rim alone. I'll try to keep you guys apprised as things happen.

Prototypes were tested with Vittoria Corsa Evo CX, Michelin Pro3 Race, and our tires in widths from 20-23mm (measured widths, not necessarily stated). While the relative performance at certain data points may change with tire selection, the overall performance of each wheel evaluated across the range of yaw angles is consistent relative to the other prototypes.
ENVE contract engineer | Former Zipp test engineer

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Arky
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by Arky

I realize that you probably add uncertainty/risk by putting out a rim rather than a wheel (component compatibility, wheelbuilder skill, etc.). However, if you could provide a 32 spoke rim option initially, that would give many of us the ability to build it and give you relatively low initial risk until you can do additional testing, should you desire to market a lower spoke rim in the future. The train is picking up speed on this wider rim concept. I'd like to ride in the 101 car!

ausdb
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by ausdb

Praha19300 wrote:Because 99.9% of the first production are on their way to the States

I just saw a Velocity A23 24h rim in a not so local LBS for AUS $95, if he had a 20H rim in stock then I would have bought a pair. The guy reckons they will be getting more stock in about 7-8 weeks as Velocity production is focused on Deep V's after the initial A23 production run.
Has anyone seen any load /weight recommendations yet? I am an 88kg salad dodger and so far a set of 20/24h kinlin 30mm rims has survived my weight but I am wondering if the A23 in 20/24h is stretching things a bit much? which will be a pity as I have a spare set of hubs in 20/24h in need of a set of rims.
Confused wheelbuilder and bodger from downunder

HakanC
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by HakanC

js wrote:RE weights - Hed C2 Scandium is apparently 435g


I have measured my Hed C2 Scandium rim to 473g


/Håkan
SWEDEN

Frans
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by Frans

"I have measured my Hed C2 Scandium rim to 473g"

Wow, is that from an Ardennes set then?

I'm amazed b/c the Ardennes accelerate so much quicker than a set of OpenPros I have which are 28 hole 2x front/3x rear with DT Revs (15/17) and Alu nipples. Weights for the 2 wheels sets are (the Open Pros are on Ultegra 9sp hubs):
Front Rear Total
OpenPro/Ultegra 704 940 1644
Hed Ardennes 611 776 1387

So the OPs are lighter at the rim since I weighed the rims around 430 grams each (8 years ago so can't be sure exactly to the gram) but the Ardennes, which are 100 grams heavier at the rim, feel lighter...by miles. Oh well, so much for weight weenies then...

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by bikemesenger

HakanC wrote:
js wrote:RE weights - Hed C2 Scandium is apparently 435g


I have measured my Hed C2 Scandium rim to 473g


/Håkan
SWEDEN


You do not have the scandium versions if your rims weight that much. I have weighed the regular aluminum C2 rims and they have weighed between 470 and 482g. I have only weighed 1 pair of the scandium C2 rims but they were both under 430g.

js
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by js

Well that's a relief! I just had four C2 Scandium rims put in the post to me this morning!!

I should have mine on the scale this weekend and built in another week or so... as parts arrive. My wife's wheels will be getting white aerolite spokes, and I can't wait to build them and see the finished product!!

aidanr
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by aidanr

Huh, hadn't heard of the A23. Pretty excited about that actually - it'll almost certainly be my next rim when it hits the UK. I like the look of the HED C2 rim but you basically can't get them this side of the pond unless you pay a ridiculous amount (I think someone was quoted £100 a rim by HED??!!).

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lancejohnson
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by lancejohnson

As someone who likes to roll wide tubis I am a fan of the wider rim profiles just for better gluing and contact between the rim and tire. My only gripe is the stupid use of wide rim 'technology'. It is not technology, it's design.
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js
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by js

The HED rims are $200 US at retail (according to HED's sales office) and in the UK, the distributor is asking for £200 at retail - both prices are per rim!

The UK mark-up is a fair bit less then 50% on these rims (they're about £120-130 at trade) and the distributor told me that they are 'subsidizing' the Ardennes complete wheelsets in the UK to keep them at a competitive price.

Maybe the price has to be that high to recoup their investment in the new "technology" :D

Frans
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by Frans

Thank you, the over-use of the word "technology" to describe, in this case, something that's a rim like any other except that it's been stretched by a couple mms really cheeses my buns. It's as if Tony Robbins-speak has come to cycling.

It's basically a drawing, which could have been done with quill on parchment, that someone took to a modern-day version of a blacksmith. I don't think Noah even had a design when he built the ark. No meeting minutes or functional spec doc to fall back on..."Hold on Angel of God, was that 23 or 25 cubits?"

Yes I'm old, but when you're my age you'll understand.

aidanr
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by aidanr

Ah, £200 a rim. Even better. What absurdity. It's 2mm extra metal FFS!

HakanC
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by HakanC

bikemesenger wrote:You do not have the scandium versions if your rims weight that much. I have weighed the regular aluminum C2 rims and they have weighed between 470 and 482g. I have only weighed 1 pair of the scandium C2 rims but they were both under 430g.


You are correct, and I was wrong.
My rim is a 28-hole Hed C2 Bastogne non-scandium alloy rim.

/Håkan
SWEDEN

NGMN
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by NGMN

aidanr wrote:Ah, £200 a rim. Even better. What absurdity. It's 2mm extra metal FFS!


In defense to the good people at Hed, almost all of their products(besides these rims) are very competitively priced.

Realistically, they went out and created a product that no one else has, a 23mm wide road racing rim. Zipp now has their wheels, and Velocity is coming out with the A23. However, I'm sure Hed would much rather sell you a set of Ardennes than just some rims.

Personally, if I build a set of wheels, I will go for the Velocity A23 but I don't expect it to be as aero or light as the Heds.

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