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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:51 am 
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Anyone done this?

Having to make the switch to 11 speeds for better or worse and have a plethora of 10 speed cassettes hanging around from various group sets.

Has anyone tried to re-purpose a 10 speed cassette to 11?

Partly just curious as I realize it aint exactly practical!

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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:51 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:09 am 
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I think it will not work because of the width of the individual cogs...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:23 am 
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I kinda figured this might be true but wasn't sure if the spacing was that far off to really screw with things.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:20 pm 
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it is both possible. Shimano and Campagnolo.

I use the big sprockets of the high end cassettes and for the rest single sprockets.

For Campagnolo I rework the rear of the big sprocket set with a lathe, so the sprockets come 0,95mm (as far as I remember) closer to the spokes. Next step are new spacers of 2,15mm and one additional sprocket. That´s it.
Works even with 2,2mm spacers.
My first versions had thinned sprockets like original 11 speed, but finally it was not necessary to work that accurate.

For Shimano I don´t remember the numbers and you have to work more carefully since there is less material and you have to cut more from the rear of the big sprocket set.

My lightweight wheels from Dierl & Obermeier with DA7400 hub internals work since 2008 with this "Shimano" 11 speed cassette.

Works also fine with RS20 and other Shimano system wheels. Probably with Shimano standard hubs the rear derailleur comes to close to the spokes.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:43 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
@diestel- did you take the cogs off the carrier and machine it to narrow the spacing between the cogs?
How did you fasten the cogs back on the carrier?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:21 pm 
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no, I did not take them off


Last edited by diestel on Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:24 pm 
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The carrier is the reason not to use a complete Record, Chorus, DuraAce or Ultegra cassette. I only use the big sprockets of the highend groups and machine the carrier with sprockets installed. At the end the spacing of the last 2 or 3 sprockets stays like 10 speed.
With Campa this means an offset for the first (biggest) sprocket of 0,4 mm und for the next of 0,2 mm. Without carrier all other sprockets can be placed as supposed. The last (smallest) can be machined if you want it perfect. But you only need to do this if you have a very narrow frame.
The shifting does not notice the offset of 0,4 mm on the upper end of travel or 0,2 mm on the lower end.

I am surprised that I am the first to do this modification. But in 2008 when i got the first Super Record group sold to a final user in Germany it was the only way to get a 12-25 cassette. Until today I never used original 11 speed cassttes on my own bikes. But after working long enough on customer bikes I have to admit that shifting got smoother with original 11 speed cassettes.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:46 am 
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Hate to put you on the spot but would you have time to put some photos up? I feel like there might be a few people that would find this interesting and want to do it as well! I know some people who have worked on 10 speed hubs to fit 11 speed cassettes as well. But this idea sounds more fun!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:44 pm 
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If there is a direct way to load them up to the forum I do it. Otherwise send me your email adress and I will send you some photos. But on the photos you just get an idea where to machine. The sizes aren´t visible. But finally it´s just mearuring and calculating. An advice: The reference is always the 3rd biggest cog. Get this cog on the right position and the rest is just doing.

Normally I am a fan of compatibility. So the idea of reworking 10 speed hubs to fit 11 speed for me is the right way. But since I modified my Shimano and lightweight wheels almost 6 years ago there was still no Shimano 11 speed at the horizont.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:59 pm 
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There's just a little bit of confusion going on here.

It would help to differentiate Shimano from Campy in the discussion. Which I believe was originally just about Shimano.

Campy freehubs, Campy wheels, and Campy compatible wheels have been fully 11-speed compatible since around 1999.

There is no need to do anything.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:15 pm 
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11 speed compatibiliy of campy freehubs is since 1996 as far as I remember


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:30 pm 
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diestel wrote:
11 speed compatibiliy of campy freehubs is since 1996 as far as I remember


Since we are being picky, the current Campy splining pattern was introduced with the Record freehub in the 1998 model year. The following year the new "oversize" hub design was introduced, which has also carried forward to today.

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:57 pm 
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If we want to be picky, please with correct information:

Campy 9 speed started in autumn 1996 with a modified version of the the light body for the 8 speed full titanium cassette and since that moment the Campy splinig hasn´t changed anymore.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:25 pm 
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diestel wrote:
If we want to be picky, please with correct information:

Campy 9 speed started in autumn 1996 with a modified version of the the light body for the 8 speed full titanium cassette and since that moment the Campy splinig hasn´t changed anymore.


Wrong. At least according to the 1997 catalog.

9-speed was first introduced on the older Exa-Drive splining for the 1997 model year.

In the 1998 model year the Ultra-Drive splining was introduced which has carried forward to today.

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:25 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:43 pm 
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You are right with model year 1997. But the first group sets were delivered in late summer 1996! At least in Germany.

You are wrong with the Exa-Drive body. The Exa-Drive body was 0,5 mm smaller than 9-, 10-, 11-bodies because the 8 speed cassette in total was thinner. So, apart of the deeper splinig profile of 9 speed cogs, there wouldn´t be enough width to carry 9 cogs.


Believe it or leave it. I won´t waste more time on that.


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