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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:27 pm 
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i rode it. the front shifter is perfect. i'll take the front! but the rear, no advantage to me and didnt feel any different.

with that being said, if it were wireless, it would have gotten 3-4 times the publicity and sales i think. the days of electronics and wires are over really. its just another pain in the butt to deal with wiring (as you see a lot of frame mfrs having to adapt to Di2).

in closing, its shimano, so i'll never own it.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:41 pm 
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I don't think that putting bettery in shifters and both ders just to make it wireless is really that great idea.

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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:41 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:51 pm 
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Wireless really blows out the power consumption. The idea of Di2 is to keep the power consumption to a minimum, to keep the need for recharging (or the weight of the battery) to a minimum. Although it is fun to imagine a Quarq Qollector recording gear shifts from ANT+ transmissions between the buttons and shifters.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:52 pm 
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I'm not surprised the rate of adoption. It only takes one ride for most people to be hooked, even the die-hard campag fans. I've almost finished converting all of my bikes to Di2, including the mountain bikes.

What I typically tell people is that yes, it is better than mechanical(be it 7900, Red, or SR11) but not in a night and day kind of way. 7900, Red, and SR11 all work well to begin with so to improve on them is like taking a Pagani and making it slightly faster. Yes it's better but is it going to make a real difference, most of the time not, but there are some occasions where it will.

For me Di2 is simply more fun to ride. It makes me want to ride more and that is the most valuable difference in my opinion. I think in a couple of years the possibility for what Di2 can do is simply mind bottling(yes I said bottling)

Both Campag and Sram need to be worried about it as it is the future. Campag particularly because they don't have the R&D budget nor an even remotely close size of market share to Sram. I've heard they had a ton of issues with the electronic group they were working on considered some of them to be monumental to overcome. Maybe now that they can look at what Shimano did it will give them some fresh ideas, because it seems like it will be really important that they bring a strong contender to the table the first time out.

Oh and someone mentioned recharging the battery every 600miles, that's a bit off. They tend to go over 2000 miles before needing a charge.

I find it funny how the whole Di2 discussion parallels the paddle shifter argument for F1 some years ago.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:55 pm 
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Yep, I agree with the battery life. Iv'e done over 1000miles and still shows 100% power.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:18 pm 
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record wrote:
I don't think that putting bettery in shifters and both ders just to make it wireless is really that great idea.
How about a compromise solution? Shifters are wireless, and there is a wire for the RD to use the main (FD) battery's power? That gets rids of the wires in the cockpit.

What's the status on remote (auxiliary) shift units for road bikes? Has anyone used them? What I would like would be for remote shifters on the handlebar near the stem for me to operate by thumb when climbing on the tops. But here's the twist. Make a one button shifter, and I would have RD upshift on one side and RD downshift on the other side, and no remote FD shifter. This would allow the buttons to be as small and unobtrusive as possible. Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:20 pm 
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Good idea, but the buttons can be so small I think I'd want the FD, too. I don't see myself using it often, but if I need it once it has paid off already, and would therefore be more useful than the yellow spoke of champions, which is the first thing I check on any bike part, as you know. If it is not more or even less useful than a yellow spoke of champions, I don't need it.

It might be childish, but I still feel like rofl mao everytime I think of it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:12 am 
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Location: Gold Coast Australia
Hi FREAK......

re your:- I don't know who this "we" is you speak of!

(Nice use of exclamation mark..?)
"We" would be the buying public who have all but turned their backs on friction shifters for very real perfomance reasons... its clear you are however exempt from this collective.

Thanks for the clarification.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:58 am 
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So they took muscular work (shifting) , and have it done by motors.
This group should clearly be banned from all competition IMO.
Mechanical forever!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:44 am 
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madcow wrote:
I find it funny how the whole Di2 discussion parallels the paddle shifter argument for F1 some years ago.


Paddle shifters offer numerous advantages over manual shifting - most importantly for racing the shifts are much quicker = faster lap times.
Di2 doesn't make anyone faster...unless you count never dropping a chain as making you faster.

Di2 and paddle shifters are similar in that they both offer better reliability (such as re: chain dropping, no drift due to cable stretch, etc.) than their mechanical counterparts.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Bikey wrote:
Di2 doesn't make anyone faster...unless you count never dropping a chain as making you faster.


Wrong-
+ ride Di2 vs any other group up a 10%+ grade while standing and shift your front chainring (either way) without letting up on the power. You'll change your opinion.

+ ride Di2 vs any other group in a 500m long sand pit on a cx bike without letting up on the power while everyone else is running. You'll change your opinion.

+ ride Di2 vs any other group while standing in a full sprint and confidently shift into any gear under full power. You'll change your opinion.

+ ride Di2 vs any other group in full colossal mud on a cx bike and still have use of any gear, where others are bogged down to a single gear. You'll change your opinion.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:55 pm 
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I have Di2, only ride on the road. The 10% grade situation you list is easily avoided (and I would say always avoided by anyone other than a complete novice rider) with a mech setup by shifting to the small ring before you are hopelessly mashing up the steeps.
The SRAM trigger shifting setup is significantly better than the Di2 setup while in a full sprint.
Di2 is wonderful, but the situations you list are not the best selling points.

Cx is a different story, I cannot speak to it.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:24 pm 
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coloclimber wrote:
+ ride Di2 vs any other group while standing in a full sprint and confidently shift into any gear under full power. You'll change your opinion.
.


I tried this....well not even full on, but standing in the 53 ring on a slight incline, about 4%, about 70 cadence, and I shifted the rear mech, and found it to feel very clunky, like I was going to break the chain (not saying it would have, just felt that clunky). Kind of reminded me of campy 10 shifting, 'kerchunk'...

Colo - do you use full finger gloves when cross racing? Was it at all challenging to hit the correct lever (or to not hit both at once) when shifting with the gloves?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:07 pm 
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addicted wrote:
Colo - do you use full finger gloves when cross racing? Was it at all challenging to hit the correct lever (or to not hit both at once) when shifting with the gloves?

Yes- I have tried thin leather, thick padded and neoprene long fingered gloves for cx training and racing. When first using long gloves or thick gloves, I had trouble with the slimmer, longer, lever for easier gears on the right.

Then, I learned where on the paddle to shift and its a non-issue now even with thick gloves.

It was a pain to clean the mud out of those little bumps though.

Image


Bikey- we are all so used to pre-shifting (before a climb, before a corner etc). Pre-shifting may not be the most efficient. Di2 really changes the way I ride. I can pedal in the optimal gear longer = faster, knowing I can shift in the middle of the hill/obstacle to a different gear if needed. I come in with the right gear, shift if needed while pedaling under power and can easily change to the optimal gear after the corner/hill/obstacle. This benefit is most noticeable in the ever changing terrain and intensity in CX racing. Doing multiple laps ont he same course helps too since you remember what gears worked for you at a certain point on the course.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:25 pm 
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Location: San Luis Obispo County, California
I have a couple disclaimers:
1) I'm stoopid.
2) I've never tried Di2.
3) I like to ride bikes.

But, FWIW, I shied away from Di2 when buying my new bike because I didn't want to deal with the battery placement on the frame. I understand it's pretty small, but either under the BB, or on the downtube, or attached to the non-drive chainstay, or tucked up under the saddle, it would be cumbersome, it would look retarded, and it would be a dirt magnet.

So, mechanical it is for me.

And, really, I can't see how shifting is slowing me down. I have Ultegra SL and DA 7900, and both shift fine. And, if I ever should happen to get caught in the wrong gear, the second or so that I stop pedaling and shift will be one second or so of recovery that will be used later when getting my fat arse up the hill. For sprinting, I shift all the time with the aforementioned shifters and have no problem and no loss of speed.

And bottom line, I'm 36 years old, have 3 kids, and I race cat 4, so, it's not like I'm TT'ing against cancellera, or climbing with contador, or trying to match legs with cavendish.....

out.

robb


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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:25 pm 


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