Best frame for handling, Colnago dilemma?
Moderator: robbosmans
Try sitting more 'in' the bike by lowering your saddle and making sure you're back on the saddle. The two photos of you on the bike look like you're sliding forward when you ride - as indicated by the nose down saddle in the other pic.
This will help get your weight distribution right, which will go a long way to helping you get round corners.
This will help get your weight distribution right, which will go a long way to helping you get round corners.
danjammin wrote:Try sitting more 'in' the bike by lowering your saddle and making sure you're back on the saddle. The two photos of you on the bike look like you're sliding forward when you ride - as indicated by the nose down saddle in the other pic.
This will help get your weight distribution right, which will go a long way to helping you get round corners.
+1 That's what I originally thought, but I couldn't be sure it wasnt the camera angle
Question - were you able to descend before the crash? If so, what changed?
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A mate of mine jumped on my colnago and said "yep typical fast and twitchy colnago", i found this weird as he has been racing for many years (he is in his 50's)
What he has been doing is riding treks for the last 8 years or so and has the current 6.9 madone. maybe the trek are just that much slower handling?
I found the colnago to be the most perfect bike down hills, first ride I took it on hit 90kmph. I know they are not lightweight or really cutting edge technology, but one thing the colnago has worked out is the handling.
I don't have mine anymore and my new bike is also rated as great downhills, but i still prefer the colnago, it was just very balanced, neutral handling.
What he has been doing is riding treks for the last 8 years or so and has the current 6.9 madone. maybe the trek are just that much slower handling?
I found the colnago to be the most perfect bike down hills, first ride I took it on hit 90kmph. I know they are not lightweight or really cutting edge technology, but one thing the colnago has worked out is the handling.
I don't have mine anymore and my new bike is also rated as great downhills, but i still prefer the colnago, it was just very balanced, neutral handling.
- Tinea Pedis
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Mr.Gib wrote:As for top tube lengths, at 185 cm height and assuming average body proportions, a 58 cm TT is not going to be too far off. 57cm might be better and I suspect 56 would be too short.
I'm 185.
Found 57.9 to be too long for me. Ride 56 now and I'm fine.
Just throwing it out there. And there's more than a few on here within a 1cm either way of me on a similar length tt frame.
I'm quite amazed you're putting an EPS up against a Trek, or a Spesh come to that.
I used to be a not-so-good descender, then I got into mountain biking in the late 1990's. When I returned to road bikes 4 years ago, I was surprised that I became a much-much better descender, from our team only a few active racers can beat me on a technical downhill. I'm 187 cm tall, 67 kg, so everything is going against fast cornering, but still, I now enjoy leaning the bike way over nad diving into corners.
Or maybe I just got older, my children have grown up, and I don't have to be afraid to hurt myself anymore... :-)
Or maybe I just got older, my children have grown up, and I don't have to be afraid to hurt myself anymore... :-)
Just a counter-intuitive note from personal experience. I became a terrible, awful descender (and corner-er) after several severe crashes. At the time I rode C40/C50. Hard to tell if it's me or the bike, but I find I'm much quicker and more confident these days on a Look 595 with a shorter wheelbase. Helps to have confidence in your wheels and brakes too - DA brakes on Cosmic Carbones may be a lot slower up the hill than 0Gs on a carbon rim, but are much more helpful going down it...
I spent years racing motorcycles. Like everyone else, I worried a lot about suspension settings, tyre pressures, steering geometry...
Then some guy with real talent would turn up, borrow some piece of crap bike, throw on a pair of used tyres and cane everyone.
Sorry, it's not the bike. You need confidence. As someone else said, get some sticky tyres, find a nice smooth, downhill road on a warm day,
and try to find someone not too fast to follow. The other trick is to not brake too late: brake early, then let yourself even speed up a little
as you run into the corner. If you arrive at the corner going (in your mind) too fast, you will tend to over-brake and run straight, forcing you
to make a tighter turn.
It might also help to dig up a book called "a twist of the wrist", which is about cornering on motorcycles but most of the stuff about
concentration, picking turn points, lines etc applies. Pity it's written in such an irritating style
Then some guy with real talent would turn up, borrow some piece of crap bike, throw on a pair of used tyres and cane everyone.
Sorry, it's not the bike. You need confidence. As someone else said, get some sticky tyres, find a nice smooth, downhill road on a warm day,
and try to find someone not too fast to follow. The other trick is to not brake too late: brake early, then let yourself even speed up a little
as you run into the corner. If you arrive at the corner going (in your mind) too fast, you will tend to over-brake and run straight, forcing you
to make a tighter turn.
It might also help to dig up a book called "a twist of the wrist", which is about cornering on motorcycles but most of the stuff about
concentration, picking turn points, lines etc applies. Pity it's written in such an irritating style
Graham
As with some above comments, I really don't believe descending speed has almost anything to do with the bike.
Have you done any criterium racing ? Do you really know how fast a bike can go around a corner without sliding out ?
I appreciate a fine bike as much as anyone, but "handling" is 99.99% rider. If a good descender can beat you by 10 sec. on his normal bike, he can beat you by 9 sec on a Schwinn Varsity (after he gets used to it a little.)
Don't take this as negative. Go ahead and get a nice bike if you want. But if you really want to improve descending, start studying the riding techniques and get lots of experience. Are you familiar with "countersteering", etc ?
I had one steel frame that felt like it was on monorail-rails when descending; my current bike will shimmy like crazy if I take my hands off the bars. (I am willing to tolerate that for its light weight) Bottom line: I descend about the same speed overall, because it is how you go through the turns that matters.
Have you done any criterium racing ? Do you really know how fast a bike can go around a corner without sliding out ?
I appreciate a fine bike as much as anyone, but "handling" is 99.99% rider. If a good descender can beat you by 10 sec. on his normal bike, he can beat you by 9 sec on a Schwinn Varsity (after he gets used to it a little.)
Don't take this as negative. Go ahead and get a nice bike if you want. But if you really want to improve descending, start studying the riding techniques and get lots of experience. Are you familiar with "countersteering", etc ?
I had one steel frame that felt like it was on monorail-rails when descending; my current bike will shimmy like crazy if I take my hands off the bars. (I am willing to tolerate that for its light weight) Bottom line: I descend about the same speed overall, because it is how you go through the turns that matters.
agree that it's mostly about the rider. position on the bike is really important too. as someone else said, don't sit too high. as well as raising the centre of gravity this makes it harder to push down through the cranks when cornering. i lowered my saddle just under 1cm a couple of years ago and it made a big difference to my descending.
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!!
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!!
Get a cheapish/second hand cross bike, do a season of cross (build it into your winter training, be amazed at how easy road descending/cornering actually is compared to an off camber greasy pile of wet clay with 100+ riders already having done several laps thro it.........
I'm not kidding either!!
I'm not kidding either!!
michael wrote:Ps. Descending technique. Know it all! No braking in the corner or only at the rear. outer leg pushing on the pedal. making half a stroke with inner leg coming out of the turn. Looking out of the corner. 8bars rear 7.5front when dry. 65kg
I see two problems here. For your weight I think you should using 7 bars and you should never use only your back brake. I highly recommend that you read/study this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/descending.html
A properly fit Colnago is one of the best frames for handling characteristics you'll probably find.
Last edited by occor on Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
- robncircus
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I too am a lousy descender. I doubt it's the whip so I'll share on how I got better. I found a local hill a couple miles from my home with a decent descent (nothing too technical). As I would ride it, I'd try to make it farther and farther without using my brakes and really focus on making good turns. After about a month, I went from riding the brakes all the way down to no longer needing them on the hill. Small steps worked for me so I figured I'd share.
Rob
Rob
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rico wrote:Helps to have confidence in your wheels and brakes too - DA brakes on Cosmic Carbones may be a lot slower up the hill than 0Gs on a carbon rim, but are much more helpful going down it...
I completely agree with this. Ever since switching to carbon rims, my braking distance has increased and I have lost a little confidence on fast technical descents. People I always used to put big gaps into on descents are now keeping up with me and I seriously doubt it is because they have all suddenly gotten much better. I have started to wonder if carbon rims are worth it due to this issue. I wonder if the amount of time I am losing on the descents is compensated for by the aero benefits. On a non-performance related level, being able to carry speed and brake later in corners also makes descending that much more fun. This isn't just a brake setup issue since I have used multiple brakes with multiple pads on two different carbon wheelsets. An average aluminum rim/brake setup has always been considerably better than the best setup on carbon rims in my experience. It looks like the OP has been riding Hyperons and Boras, so this might be part of the problem for him as well.