will you ride electric group? just vote!
Moderator: robbosmans
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Yes of course! It will be a bike evolution like the automatic pedals, only if it works well... not like the old Mavic group.
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- Posts: 200
- Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:37 am
- Location: Colorado, USA
No, because it isn't Shimano. If I'm going to add electronics I might as well buy a Ducati
Not sure it bears comparison with clipless pedals or more sprockets. Those things have a functional advantage. What is the functional advantage of an electronic group? If there is any advantage, does it really outweight the complexity, hassle and more-to-go-wrong factor?
rco
rco
- Composite World
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:54 am
I think it is nothing but a result of laziness. I would pedal and breath more so have a better health.
If it is lighter and faster I might ride it, but if it costs more, I probably won't buy it and that is why I think these systems havn't come to market. There is very little to gain over the current top of the line groups. I mean pushing a button couldn't be much easier than the current DA group. My finger just goes "poke" "poke" and I have just shifted twice. The reliability would certainly be less on an electric group and the manufacturing cost would be more and I can't immagine the weight being less.
If you have a battery, the maintenance is higher, if you have a dynamo the efficiency is less. Which one of you would push a dynamo while riding? What happens if you are out on a 40 mile ride and the battery craps out?
The reliability would most certainly be less because you would have almost all the parts you now have and many more. I have noticed that both Shimano and Campagnola and especially Shimano have went to less maintenance intensive components in the last few years. Many of the bearings are now sealed for life and you never grease them, just use them and buy new ones years later. Among many examples is the STI levers that are not rebuildable.
These electric systems would cost more to produce than the current DA/Record groups (assuming top line components) and it would be hard to sell them for more money than they get for current top line groups. I have an MBA and I have in the past worked for a Fortune 50 company and I can tell you that the engineers can come up with stuff that the marketing and accounting departments will basically say there is no business case for this product and that is the end of the story. Any engineers on this list that can tell stories of all the stuf they could do that marketing and accounting or legal said "no way"?
My guess is that you only ever see electric shifting in comfort groups like the Shimano c810 because there is a market for people that are old and don't care about efficiency and probably won't ride enough miles to wear anything out and if it uses a dynamo the maintenance can be nill too since they probably ride less than 2000 miles a year and there are no batteries to change. And they can just sit in the seat and pump and push a button to make the effort less or more. Legal won't have a problem with it because it doesn't have a battery to crap out; marketing loves it because it gives them a new group to sell to; and since the components are basically low/mid level (no hollow crankarms, steel gears, simple BB, etc.) manufacturing costs are low, accounting loves it too since the margins are good-better in fact than 105 or Ultegra, comperable to DA.
The other possibility is that they figure out to make electricity from the vibrations of the road like a self winding watch and it is as light as the current groups and way cool and the group sells for $3500. They only have to sell 1000 groups worldwide to make a huge profit since the manufacturing costs are only about 20% more than DA/Record. In that case it will come to market, but since it won't make me any faster, I will still not be one of the customers. This is the reason the engineers get to continue to play around with this stuff. If they ever hit on the solution to the watch winding problem the profits are huge, even if the group is not an overwhelming success.
If you have a battery, the maintenance is higher, if you have a dynamo the efficiency is less. Which one of you would push a dynamo while riding? What happens if you are out on a 40 mile ride and the battery craps out?
The reliability would most certainly be less because you would have almost all the parts you now have and many more. I have noticed that both Shimano and Campagnola and especially Shimano have went to less maintenance intensive components in the last few years. Many of the bearings are now sealed for life and you never grease them, just use them and buy new ones years later. Among many examples is the STI levers that are not rebuildable.
These electric systems would cost more to produce than the current DA/Record groups (assuming top line components) and it would be hard to sell them for more money than they get for current top line groups. I have an MBA and I have in the past worked for a Fortune 50 company and I can tell you that the engineers can come up with stuff that the marketing and accounting departments will basically say there is no business case for this product and that is the end of the story. Any engineers on this list that can tell stories of all the stuf they could do that marketing and accounting or legal said "no way"?
My guess is that you only ever see electric shifting in comfort groups like the Shimano c810 because there is a market for people that are old and don't care about efficiency and probably won't ride enough miles to wear anything out and if it uses a dynamo the maintenance can be nill too since they probably ride less than 2000 miles a year and there are no batteries to change. And they can just sit in the seat and pump and push a button to make the effort less or more. Legal won't have a problem with it because it doesn't have a battery to crap out; marketing loves it because it gives them a new group to sell to; and since the components are basically low/mid level (no hollow crankarms, steel gears, simple BB, etc.) manufacturing costs are low, accounting loves it too since the margins are good-better in fact than 105 or Ultegra, comperable to DA.
The other possibility is that they figure out to make electricity from the vibrations of the road like a self winding watch and it is as light as the current groups and way cool and the group sells for $3500. They only have to sell 1000 groups worldwide to make a huge profit since the manufacturing costs are only about 20% more than DA/Record. In that case it will come to market, but since it won't make me any faster, I will still not be one of the customers. This is the reason the engineers get to continue to play around with this stuff. If they ever hit on the solution to the watch winding problem the profits are huge, even if the group is not an overwhelming success.
For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.
- CaptainWilier
- Posts: 1914
- Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:14 am
- Location: Georgia
No Way I don't see it being any easier/quicker/lighter with less problems(prob more) than the current system and I already have enough trouble paying for Record and I'm sure it will cost more.
If Campy were to enable the use of additional shifter buttons ala Mektronic, the system would be brilliant for time trialling. One of the reasons why I use it to this day.
Remember Chris Boardman's fondness for Zap and Mektronic? Having multiple points on the handlebar to shift gears saved him small amounts of time, particularly when accelerating out of the saddle or braking through corners. All other cable actuated systems on the market only have one point of shifting.
For road bike use, the Mektronic system enabled the user to shift gears from two points on the right shifter and another point near the middle of the bar. For climbing on the bar tops it is very easy to use your right thumb to shift up and down. No cable actuated system can do this.
Just wondering if anyone on this forum has actually OWNED one of the Mavic systems? There seems to be a lot of opinion about electronic systems but very little actual experience with them.
Remember Chris Boardman's fondness for Zap and Mektronic? Having multiple points on the handlebar to shift gears saved him small amounts of time, particularly when accelerating out of the saddle or braking through corners. All other cable actuated systems on the market only have one point of shifting.
For road bike use, the Mektronic system enabled the user to shift gears from two points on the right shifter and another point near the middle of the bar. For climbing on the bar tops it is very easy to use your right thumb to shift up and down. No cable actuated system can do this.
Just wondering if anyone on this forum has actually OWNED one of the Mavic systems? There seems to be a lot of opinion about electronic systems but very little actual experience with them.
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- Posts: 250
- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:32 pm
- Location: AUSTRALIA
Hah!!
All these dudes saying no way - cost more, more to go wrong weighs more and so on.
How many of you are riding STI's rather than downtube shifters?
It's called progress, mate.
A secret part of being a weight weenie is being a techno-weenie.
Watch this space.
All these dudes saying no way - cost more, more to go wrong weighs more and so on.
How many of you are riding STI's rather than downtube shifters?
It's called progress, mate.
A secret part of being a weight weenie is being a techno-weenie.
Watch this space.
GO HARD OR GO HOME
- CaptainWilier
- Posts: 1914
- Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:14 am
- Location: Georgia
Smallfish, you are probably right but it is hard to coneive that it would be an advance it all catagories anytime in the near future. But I hope you are right cause man I'm lazy and a push button sounds nice.And don't go too far east down there in AUS cause you might fall off the earth.
Also, just wait til carbon fiber gets popular.............
Also, just wait til carbon fiber gets popular.............
Well it does'nt look like we're going to have to wait long to find out.
Here's some info on Campy's Electronic Record with a link to some good pics,
http://www.campyonly.com/rumors/new_ele ... ecord.html
and it's lighter than the current record.
Here's some info on Campy's Electronic Record with a link to some good pics,
http://www.campyonly.com/rumors/new_ele ... ecord.html
and it's lighter than the current record.
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