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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:15 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
mainstreetbikes wrote:
Just stripped the G5 for the kit and said adieu to my G4. Not much time before a quick lunch, but I threw it on the scale with
Fork, headset, compression plug, top gap, seat clamp, seat post, BB adapter, der. hanger and all in it weighs 4 pounds 1 ounce in a 56.
I will try and get a frame only weight later, but it's a bit busy.


Ohh... oohhh. very exciting. The BH is clearly the production bike with, after adjusting for frame features, the lowest claimed mass of anything I've seen so far. ISP: added mass. Filled in seat tube: added mass. BB30: a bit of added mass....

So what we have here is

frame +
fork +
headset +
compression plug +
top gap +
seat clamp +
seat post +
BB adapter =
1843 grams

Please check my work:
fork: estimated 306 grams (Edge, cut)
plug: 28 (from my Fuji; I replaced this with an Ultralight)
cap: 11 (ditto)
headset: 66 (from Fuji)
seat post: 181 (my Thomson masterpiece, cut)
BB adaptor: 20 grams?????

Okay, I still have 1233 grams for frame w/ bolts & clamps. Are you sure you didn't have a wheel on there :)?

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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:15 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:42 pm 
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DJ I agree things don't really add up, but I think you're making a number of underestimates. I expect the fork weighs more than the 306g you are attributing, since the steerer was probably not cut much and I'm guessing the uncut weight is actually higher than the Edge 2.0 fork due to the larger lower bearing (eg Look HSC 6 with 1 1/4 lower bearing weighs more than the HSC 5). Probably the headset is heavier too. I'm guessing the seatpost is also heavier than the 180g you attribute given its aero profile, maybe 20-40g more, and the seatclamp is probably heavy also (40g?). Certainly you are underestimating the BB30 adapter weight - the aluminum cups for Campy Ultra Torque weight 50g for the pair, and I doubt the adapters could weight much less.
We should have an over/under pool on the frame weight: 980g?

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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:41 pm 
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dwaharvey wrote:
We should have an over/under pool on the frame weight: 980g?


I think the Medium frame (56) will come in around the low 900's is my guess. So maybe somewhere around 910-920g range. But this is based on the assumption that the small frame really comes in around the low 800s.


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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:19 pm 
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dwaharvey wrote:
DJ I agree things don't really add up, but I think you're making a number of underestimates. I expect the fork weighs more than the 306g you are attributing, since the steerer was probably not cut much and I'm guessing the uncut weight is actually higher than the Edge 2.0 fork due to the larger lower bearing (eg Look HSC 6 with 1 1/4 lower bearing weighs more than the HSC 5). Probably the headset is heavier too. I'm guessing the seatpost is also heavier than the 180g you attribute given its aero profile, maybe 20-40g more, and the seatclamp is probably heavy also (40g?). Certainly you are underestimating the BB30 adapter weight - the aluminum cups for Campy Ultra Torque weight 50g for the pair, and I doubt the adapters could weight much less.
We should have an over/under pool on the frame weight: 980g?


Okay, then:
starting mass: 1233 grams
-20 grams for the fork
-20 grams for the larger-diameter headset
-40 grams for the seatpost
-40 grams for seatclamp
-30 grams for the adapters

total = 1083 grams

I'll take the over :).

The scale isn't super-accurate, either, since weight was reported to the nearest ounce. Still....

Dan

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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:53 pm 
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Sorry guys, in my haste I forgot to clarify a few things.
1) the build kit on this bike was originally speced on a speedrom and by no means a weight weenie build, which is why what I weighed included three portly 20 mil headset spacers they weigh around 50 grams. that is minor but the biggie is
2) When I said BB adapter I mispoke. this is not the FSA press fit sleeve (which does weigh just over 50grams) rather the special press fit cups AND preinstalled bearings that BH made specifically for users not ready to swap to BB30. check out the pics on BH website and you will see what I mean. While it is very nice aesthetically and eases transition for non BB30 owners, I highly doubt it is super light. I would wager this thing with the bearings weighs more than a standard 6600 bottom bracket. All the more reason to go BB30. I did take the time to pull everything but the bottom bracket and bearings and it tipped the scales at 1100 grams. I have a park ds-1 scale that does grams and pounds, but I often quote pounds. I like the option BH gives consumers who aren't ready for BB30 but want this frame. I do think BB30 will take over a large portion of the market within 3 years, but the industry needs to go easy on those who recently dropped some coin on a high end crank that uses outboard cups..

I say 150grams+ on the BB dohicky, so my bet is sub 980 on the 56 without the BB. My 57cm G4 weighed 1050 by the way.


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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:15 am 
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mainstreetbikes wrote:

I say 150grams+ on the BB dohicky, so my bet is sub 980 on the 56 without the BB. My 57cm G4 weighed 1050 by the way.


Wow that is quite on the porky side, no? I was expecting the 56 to be low to mid 900s since the 54 was suppose to be in the low 800s.

mainstreetbikes wrote:
but I often quote pounds


It will be helpful if you used grams, since most of what goes on around here is based in grams.


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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:00 pm 
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Looks like 1002 grams for frame + 375 grams for fork.

So the over takes it.

What a total disaster.

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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:36 pm 
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djconnel wrote:
Looks like 1002 grams for frame + 375 grams for fork.

So the over takes it.

What a total disaster.


+10000. I was considering a G5 but I didn't want to buy a frame blind until more reviews came out and then my budget for bike changed. What a disaster with the weight. This isn't even close!

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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:56 pm 
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waiting patiently for a review..... :?


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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:56 am 
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Location: save the fast for last >>>
this is good for me " BH have had more relaxed seat tube angles


but the price is a major problem

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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:24 pm 
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djconnel wrote:
Looks like 1002 grams for frame + 375 grams for fork.

So the over takes it.

What a total disaster.


Got an email back from BH regarding their claimed vs. real weights. I got an interesting response from them. Basically stating that they list the frame weights out of the mold since that is what their "competitors do." :noidea: I'm really confused by this. I know of no major, reputable bike manufacturer that does that. Look doesn't with their 586 (940g with ISP and paint!) and 595 (1080g with ISP and paint!) which also have an ISP. Pearl Cycles doesn't with their Dice frame (ISP and paint!= 950g). Stevens doesn't with their SLR (ISP and paint=1185g). Giant doesn't with their TCR Advanced SL (ISP and paint!). Time doesn't with their Time RXR ULTEAM (paint and ISP @ 1100g +/-5%). Scott doesn't with the Addict (ISP and paint= 955g). Even non-ISP bikes are close to their claimed weight like the Litespeed Ghisallo, and Parlee Z4. I can understand if the bike is a few grams off the maker's claimed weight (1-2%), but when you claim a frame weight of 810g and don't care to mention that this is out of the mold without paint, and that the customer can't even purchase it out of the mold without paint at 810g but rather at a much heavier weight, I feel that the maker has lied to me and has very very poor marketing skills. The truth will come out anyways. Might as well come from the maker, before people start spending $3500+ on a frameset and find out they were lied to. Below is the response from BH:

"BH quotes frame weights out of the mold (un-painted), because that is how our competitors do it. Also, on our competitors extended seat tube frames, they cut the mast off and provide the weight without mast. Ours includes the mast. Other companies that do not have an extended mast do not include the east post in their weights. While I certainly think it would be nicer to have the weights listed with paint, we would not be looking at apples to apples with our competition."

Seems like a poor way of doing business in the higher end bike business to me.


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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:48 pm 
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I think their major competitors are De Rosa, Pinarello, Pinarello and Pinarello.

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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:31 pm 
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phallenthoul wrote:
I think their major competitors are De Rosa, Pinarello, Pinarello and Pinarello.



HAHAHAHAHA oh my!!!! That might be the funniest post I have read in a while. +1000000 :thumbup: :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:07 am 
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+2 on Pinarello, and on the ISP thing it's probably misleading not to mention the aluminum sleeve placed inside the mast so the super heavy stubby won't crush it if over-torqued. Until we have light stubbies and no sleeve, ISPs are probably best viewed as weight-ADDING features.


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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:07 am 


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 Post subject: Re: BH G5 in Taiwan..
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:43 am 
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Posts: 313
Just got my 57cm G5 on Saturday. Frame weight was 1045g (with hanger, cable guides, water bottle bolts), Shimano cups 100g, fork uncut 374g, seat post 140g, seat clamp 22g.

I think this is a very respectable weight for a big frame, ISP, large head tube (175mm) and a good amount of paint.

The fit and finish are great, not sure what some people are commenting on. The inside of the head tube, downtube and top tube are the smoothest I have ever seen. Absolutely no wrinkes, I would almost say as finished as the outside less the clear coat.

I can totally imagine 54cm frames being under 900g no problem.

First batches of any brand new design are not always the lightest. As production ramps up, usually frame weights go down a little.


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