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 Post subject: Road Packs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:31 pm
Posts: 28
Location: White Rock, New Mexico, USA
Hi Folks. This is my first post. Some context: I have Giant TCR Once Team Carbon bike. Love it (sorry Superlight!). It's full Campy Record 2003 including triple crankset and pedals. With Rolf Elan's it weighs in at 15.5 lbs. This is not a trophy bike. I ride it every day. I am interested in light and useful. So, what have you folks discovered in the way of light, realistic, useful road packs? Currently, I have a Jandd Mini Tool Kit bag, 1.3 oz, filled with a Topeak Tool Bar, 68 gms, an inflator head and 1 bottle, 1 light spare tube, mini patch kit, tiny Swiss Army Knife (very cute), a Fi'zi:k seat cover, credit card, and car key. Could use a spoke wrench which I include on long rides. 8) By far the most heavy items are the inflator head and the bottle. Maybe someone could make these out of carbon but , oh, the cost. No chain tool or wrenches. Don't need them as all bolts of interest are Allen and I have never needed a chain tool in 30 years of riding. Any body have any ideas how I can make this setup lighter?


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 Post subject: Road Packs
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:09 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:05 pm
Posts: 2070
Nice bike dude, post some pic's when you get a chance and welcome :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:18 pm
Posts: 731
Location: Austin
i put one tube, 2x16 gram Co2 and an adapter in a small ziplock, put in my jersey pocket. bike stays lite and continues to look goood

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:31 pm
Posts: 28
Location: White Rock, New Mexico, USA
nikh-thanks for the welcome. I feel like I'm home. I mean were else can a bunch of fanatics have free rein to persue their fanaticism. nicrump, thanks for your reply but in all honesty your tool kit is a bit too basic for me. Kevlar bead tires need tire levers- at least the Conti Attack Force tires I have on the bike. And, how do you make adjustments, seat or brake pads for example. Also, the little, bittie Jandd bag is pretty unobtrusive. It's the smallest bag I have ever seen and I've looked. Also, I don't like the feel of the weight of the tool kit against my back when the kit is in a rear pocket. I will admit that your kit does weigh less and thats good. And the bike looks soooooo good. But why 2 bottles with only one tube? How about you others out there. How do you solve the problem? After all, weight taken off here is cheap!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:18 pm
Posts: 731
Location: Austin
I make adjustments in my shop. over 100k miles in 14 years on the road, only stranded twice and still manage to thumb a ride

as for beads, i run mich race lites on campy proton rims. its harder than a mofo, but there is a technique i promise. but ive also been a pro mech for 12 years and have pulled maybe over a thousands tires in that time.

i have the smallest jand bag on my rain bike, plus a pump. at most i could see 2 mich ultra lite tubes, a pair of levers and a speed patch kit. could probly squeez in a 5mm but its getting sort of tight now.

as for 2 bottles, if one gets out of control.... there is a backup. i will also swear that french tubes flat far less often than the taiwan stuff. much better rubber and more compact to tuck away. worth the extra couple bucks for me

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:31 pm
Posts: 28
Location: White Rock, New Mexico, USA
nicrump: Thanks for your explanation. In truth I have had almost no problems on the road including flats. For sure you are right about getting things fixed in the shop. I try to do the same and high quality equipment helps. You expose my paranoia about breaking down which is not often. I guess I pay the weight price. Just to fill in some details about my current pack, here is what my double beam balance reveals: Total seat pack weight-361.7 grms. converts to 12.76 oz. and .80lbs. This is more than I like but the kit is fairly complete and makes me feel good. Maybe I'll drill holes in my car key and credit card. Definately not the tube, huh? We must serve our fanaticism! By the way, what ever happened to tire savers or sticker flickers. When I rode sew-ups I used them and they worked well. But now I never see them. Why not?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:31 pm
Posts: 28
Location: White Rock, New Mexico, USA
Hi Folks,
What's with you guy's. Do you ride your fancy bikes or just stare at them and dream? If you ride, then you have to carry some support unless you are unrealistic optimists. I don’t mean to preach, but I will anyway. I will say this sloooowly: the actual road weight of a bike includes more than you, your clothes, and the bike components (carefully weighed I assume). NO, the real world requires things like bottles, cages, refreshing liquid, snacks & food, shoes & cleats, some modicum of tools and emergency supplies, and something to get through bad weather. Right?

Now, I know these things may not capture the imagination like carbon cranks and the latest wheels but the final result on the road does include the real world. Weight of the support items can be optimized and the cost to do so is minimal. Does this make them unworthy of your fertile creativity? Based upon the response to this thread, apparently so. What’s with you guy’s? I feel like I'm beating a dead horse! 'Nuff preaching.

Listed below is what I typically carry on longer rides out in the middle of mother nature beyond the reach of phones (or do you carry a cell phone-not a bad idea in some cases?). For shorter rides I carry less. Obviously, everybody will make their own choices. Discovering these choices so each can improve their road pack is why this thread was started.

I used an Ohaus double beam balance with .1g accuracy. Each weight rounded to closest 0.1 gram. All quantities are one each.

- Full seat pack before weighing each item 358.1 g

- Jandd Mini Tool Pack - empty: 37.8 g (less than Jandd's spec.)
- 16 g CO2 bottle – full: 59.3 g
- Inflator Head – Innovations; brass w/ spring collar: 37.5 g
- Topeak Tool Bar; includes 3 hex stubs to fit everything, 1 slot
driver stub, 1 Phillips stub, 2 irons (alum.): 67.0 g (same as Topeak's spec.)
- Spare tube w/ stem nut, rubber band: 66.9 g
- Car key w/small ring: 19.7 g
- Mini instant patch kit; unopened: 4.9 g
- Credit Card; well used!: 5.0 g
- Tiny Swiss Army Knife; 1 blade, tweezers, toothpick,
scissors, combination file and slot screwdriver, ring: 21.1 g
- Fizik seat cover; to keep seat dry: 36.9 g
- A couple of band-aids; too light to weigh
TOTAL 356.1 g
____________________________________________________________________________
Full seat pack after weighing each item then repacking the bag: 358.1 g (same as it was before-how 'bout that?)
Total of the individual items: 356.1 g
Measurement Error: 2 g or .5%
Pretty good. Try this with inexpensive digital scales. It may be sobering.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:10 pm
Posts: 378
Location: Colorado
- Jandd Mini Tool Pack - empty: 37.8 g (less than Jandd's spec.)
- 16 g CO2 bottle – full: 59.3 g
- Inflator Head – Innovations; brass w/ spring collar: 37.5 g
- Topeak Tool Bar; includes 3 hex stubs to fit everything, 1 slot
driver stub, 1 Phillips stub, 2 irons (alum.): 67.0 g (same as Topeak's spec.)
- Spare tube w/ stem nut, rubber band: 66.9 g
- Car key w/small ring: 19.7 g
- Mini instant patch kit; unopened: 4.9 g
- Credit Card; well used!: 5.0 g
- Tiny Swiss Army Knife; 1 blade, tweezers, toothpick,
scissors, combination file and slot screwdriver, ring: 21.1 g
- Fizik seat cover; to keep seat dry: 36.9 g
- A couple of band-aids; too light to weigh
TOTAL 356.1 g


Okay...I'll bite.....how about getting rid of a few things that are only there as a safety blanket:
Nut on spare tube (do you really need this?) - 1g
Car key (hide it some where on the car) - 19.7g
Credit Card (replace with a $20 bill) - 4g (figure the $20 will be 1g)
Swiss Army knife (unless you want to clean that powerbar out of your teeth or tweeze your unibrow you don't need it) - 21.1g
Seat cover (if your riding why do you need a seat cover) - 36.9

After all is done.....a savings of: 82.7 grams!!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 343
No joke...
Even on 150+ km rides i just carry 2 spare tubes in my pocket and a minipump on my bike. Never got into trouble. My bike is definitly not a 12 lb dream but its reliable ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:31 pm
Posts: 28
Location: White Rock, New Mexico, USA
Hay, thats a liitle more like it. Thanks for your thoughts.
Xterra Racer; 82.7g (actually, I get 83.7) is a start in the right direction. But let's face it; it's all a safety blanket. It's a matter of degree. OK, the key can go. Credit card maybe. What do you think of drilling holes in it? Really; as long as the magnetic strip is not drilled it should work. Maybe the key too. The stem nut is there because I'm still not trusting that the inflator can get a good grip on the stem that protrudes from the new Rolf Prima Elan rims and the nut pulls the stem up. It's very close. The one time I used the inflator it worked fine without the nut. OK, it's gone. The seat cover is an experiment because I had a little extra room and, frankly, I didn't know what the thing was supossed to be used for. I figured a $180 saddle with very fragile leather needed some comfort. But I think you're right. I will replace it with a paper towel. Good for greasy fingers and light. The Swiss Army Knife is tough. I have been carrying various models for 30 years. Can't predict when they're needed. I consider it a survival tool. It stays. And it's so cute. All good ideas which I'll consider. Now for the meat: how do you deal with the road problem? What's your pack look like? What do you deem necessary? How do you play the odd's.
Let's see, key+cover+nut+drilled Credit Card = 60.1 g. Gets it down to about 300 g. Good. Thanks.

Ivan; when I was younger, I carried 2 spare sew-up's and a small, crummy 3 (small) wrench kit designed for bikes, and a frame pump. To some extent, what one carries depends on your riding style. I mostly solo in uninhabited country with not much traffic. When I ride in group I'm the one that makes sure that all the real necessities are present and the load is spread. For example, only 1 pump is needed, only one tool kit, etc. I am a definite believer in Murphey's law. Experience has taught me this. You may have never been in trouble but your day may come. It's a question of odds and how you wish to play them. None-the-less, over kill is not good. My pack is calculated based upon my assessment of the odds. By the way, I weighed my frame pump, a very light plastic Silca with a plastic head, and found it was only a couple of grams lighter that the inflator and 1 bottle. If you weigh yours you may be surprised. Of course, the pump can inflate many tires. I like pumps better because of that but my bike has no good place for one. I like your practice of two tubes. Thanks for your input.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:18 pm
Posts: 731
Location: Austin
Quote:
a very light plastic Silca with a plastic head,


karma, you exposed yourself... you gamble more that you realize. i have left more plastic headed silca pumps on the roadside than banana peels...

that pump is very contradictory to your philosophy on preparedness.
[/quote]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:31 pm
Posts: 28
Location: White Rock, New Mexico, USA
nicrump
You are absolutely right! But, I never had one fail. I have talked to folks who have. Like Superlite said, it's one of those stupid lite things. I was just lucky. Also, hopefully, age teaches prudence.

Good to hear from you again.


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 Post subject: Water bottle
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:24 am
Posts: 366
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma,

Someone told me about a great way to lighten the bike once. Just drill a few holes in yer water bottle and you will get rid of some 600 g or even 1 kg if you prefer bigger one. I did not try it personally, but the method sounds promising ;-)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:18 pm
Posts: 731
Location: Austin
Karma, I hope i wasnt harsh, i justa have strong feelings about silca pumps... a real love hate thing.

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 Post subject:
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:31 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:10 pm
Posts: 378
Location: Colorado
Karma,

As far as drilling holes in your credit card goes.....I wouldn't, ya never know that the store clerk is going to think about that one. Key's on the other hand is a possibility....just don't weaken them to the point of breaking off when your using it. I have a magnetic hide a key holder on my truck that I have a spare key in. When I go out for a ride I lock my regular keys in the truck and then use the hide a key when I get back. No big deal.

As far as what I carry:
Training rides - spare tube (regular weight), two 16g CO2 cartridges, Inflator head, glueless patches, 1 tire iron (plastic), and sometimes a multitool.

Race conditions - spare tube (lightweight model), Big Air CO2 cartridge and inflator head, 1 plastic tire iron and glueless patches.

I don't carry a multitool on race rides....just have never had the need for one.


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