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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:13 am 
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mdeth1313 wrote:
even better- red or force group with a campy chorus or record fd.


For real? The Campa front works better than the SRAM derailleur?


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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:13 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Location: Australia
i'm surprised that SRAM continue to close the gap between their three road groupsets...

First the introduce zero-loss on Rival and Force (albeit front shift only) plus the finish on Rival and Force are pretty nice now too...

But now that Force is so close to Red in terms of weight and features, it makes me wonder what they are planning for 09/10 Red - because it must be something good if they're bringing the other two groupsets so close to the top in terms of features...

In Australia, i've found this groupset (RED) for $1800 - which is a pretty good price considering it's the top teir groupset and comparable to Super Record and 7900... Looking back a while, i'm impressed that they've really managed to make an impression in the Pro Tour ranks and in the high end bike market in general. People really consider SRAM as a genuine and preferred alterntive to the other big 2 - no mean feat considering the monopoly these two had on the high end groupset market not that long ago...

Anyway, new Force looks really nice, and with Red levers, this would be a groupset of choice...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:50 pm 
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I've run Force since they released it.

Best 2010 combo would be Force gruppo with Red cassette and 7800/7900 chain.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:31 pm 
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Stats wrote:
no mean feat considering the monopoly these two had on the high end groupset market not that long ago...

When two firms have dominant control over a market it's called a duopoly. When there's more than two dominat players but still only a few it's called an oligopoly :wink:

But in the Ultegra price segment and below I think Shimano had a much much larger market share than Campagnolo lately, especially for bike manufacturers. The Ultegra price segment and below is also where it really matters, because the number of Record and Dura Ace groups sold is quite low cmpared to Ultegra. I heard Ultegra alone easily outnumbered Dura-Ace and Record combined. I think Campagnolo has a bigger slice of the aftermarket than the OEM market.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Actually, if you really want to talk about the 'power' of the drivetrain companies, it has long been in the following ranking:

1. Shimano
2. SRAM
3. Campagnolo

Why?
The majority of sales for bicycles are either commuter/hybrid/comfort or mountain bikes.
Let's start off talking about the largest sales group, the commuter/hybrid/comfort range. Shimano has Tiagra and down from there... they've even got groups that don't have names, just number combinations. The specs for many bikes just read "Shimano Drivetrain" - and it's a mix. Not a great drivetrain for what we prefer, obviously, but the point I am making is that the sales are being made, and Shimano is right there. Now, SRAM? They're in this market too. Not nearly as prominent as Shimano, but they are there. Campagnolo? Who?

Now let's talk about the 2nd largest segment: mountain bikes. People tend to buy these for the same reason suburban housewives feel like they need an SUV truck: it looks durable, tough and has 'shocks' for "comfort". The majority of people buying mountain bikes may never see dirt in their lifetime. But hey, let's ignore that and just talk about all MTB in general - the serious riders and the posers. Drivetrains? It's either Shimano or it's SRAM. They've been competitive with each other for many, many years now and their groups are top-noche. Prior to SRAM there was SACHS in Europe (purchased by SRAM) - but anyway, SRAM has been there for a while.
Campagnolo.... Who?

....Then we've got Road bikes.
Shimano/Campagnolo Traditionally... SRAM comes into play lately and is part of the 'big 3'.

But, honestly? In the industry as a whole there were only a big '2' and those two were Shimano and SRAM. Campagnolo is long overdue for an evolution in how they operate if they want to have any success in the future... long overdue. If not, they'll be relegated to sales in a niche market with less and less ability to compete for innovation stemming from research, testing, design as the other companies continue to grow their market share and capital.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:55 pm 
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+ internal gears which is also a huge market segment for commuters, are also dominated by Shimano and SRAM (formerly Sachs).
But he did write high-end groupset market, before SRAM joined. And there it was only Shimano and Campagnolo.
But it's true if you look a gears for all type of bikes Campagnolo is tiny compared to both Shimano and SRAM.

It has been said that Campagnolo have had a very hard time competing with the price of Ultegra for OEM customers where Shimano have sold with great OEM rebates.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:26 pm 
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Yes. Shimano "manufacturer" pricing is so low you would cry if you knew the numbers.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:14 pm 
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Location: Dutchess County, NY
musgravecycles wrote:
mdeth1313 wrote:
even better- red or force group with a campy chorus or record fd.


For real? The Campa front works better than the SRAM derailleur?


alot of people are running this setup-- either a campy or dura-ace FD. After getting it set up, I've had zero issues with it. For WW's it's ideal-- my tuned campy fd is somewhere between 59-63g and I havent switched out to a ti spring.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:34 pm 
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musgravecycles wrote:
mdeth1313 wrote:
even better- red or force group with a campy chorus or record fd.

For real? The Campa front works better than the SRAM derailleur?

Yes both Shimano and Campagnolo front derailleurs has a reputation of working better than SRAM front derailleurs, even with a SRAM groupset.
You can mix any brand of front derailleur with any brand of groupset.

Threre's also a lot of SRAM equipped mountainbikes with Shimano MTB front derailleurs. Even complete SRAM equipped bikes from many MTB manufactures are equipped with a Shimano front derailleur.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:59 pm 
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lalahsghost wrote:
I don't think I will get another SRAM product for a while (bought '09 rival for my first real road bike).

When are they going to add more trim functions to their front derailleur shifter? I can't use my 12/13 and sometimes 14 tooth cogs without crosschaining in my 39 OR 34 chainring (two diff cranksets). I know there are shifting equivalents, but still....
What cassette are you using? If it is an 11-up then the 11/12/13 will not run on the 34 inner because they're likely clipping the inside of the outer chainring. This is worse on frames with a short chainstay. That said, you should have NO cage rub in the third sprocket unless your mech is poorly adjusted. If you can't get it right, try a LBS that sells SRAM.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:56 pm 
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TECH FEATURES: FIRST RIDE: 2010 SRAM FORCE AND ZIPP 303 WHEELS
http://www.roadbikeaction.com/fly.aspx? ... 7&cid=1455


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:15 pm 
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"With the redesign and improvements, the 2010 Force feels virtually indistinguishable from Red."...

I like that.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:01 am 
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This gruppo is getting some serious consideration from myself for my new build!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:45 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Actually, if you really want to talk about the 'power' of the drivetrain companies, it has long been in the following ranking:

1. Shimano
2. SRAM
3. Campagnolo

Why?
The majority of sales for bicycles are either commuter/hybrid/comfort or mountain bikes.
Let's start off talking about the largest sales group, the commuter/hybrid/comfort range. Shimano has Tiagra and down from there... they've even got groups that don't have names, just number combinations. The specs for many bikes just read "Shimano Drivetrain" - and it's a mix. Not a great drivetrain for what we prefer, obviously, but the point I am making is that the sales are being made, and Shimano is right there. Now, SRAM? They're in this market too. Not nearly as prominent as Shimano, but they are there. Campagnolo? Who?

Now let's talk about the 2nd largest segment: mountain bikes. People tend to buy these for the same reason suburban housewives feel like they need an SUV truck: it looks durable, tough and has 'shocks' for "comfort". The majority of people buying mountain bikes may never see dirt in their lifetime. But hey, let's ignore that and just talk about all MTB in general - the serious riders and the posers. Drivetrains? It's either Shimano or it's SRAM. They've been competitive with each other for many, many years now and their groups are top-noche. Prior to SRAM there was SACHS in Europe (purchased by SRAM) - but anyway, SRAM has been there for a while.
Campagnolo.... Who?

....Then we've got Road bikes.
Shimano/Campagnolo Traditionally... SRAM comes into play lately and is part of the 'big 3'.

But, honestly? In the industry as a whole there were only a big '2' and those two were Shimano and SRAM. Campagnolo is long overdue for an evolution in how they operate if they want to have any success in the future... long overdue. If not, they'll be relegated to sales in a niche market with less and less ability to compete for innovation stemming from research, testing, design as the other companies continue to grow their market share and capital.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:37 am 
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Location: Denmark
Anybody know about the Zeroloss on both the front and rear?

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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:37 am 


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