Freehub compatibility Shimano 11s > 12s

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Maddie
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by Maddie

Like many others, I’m using 12s Dura Ace and Ultegra cassettes on my wheels. I have several wheelsets, most of them with 11s Shimano freehubs. Two rear wheels cause shifting problems, both Farsports with RD-230 freehubs (35mm and 58mm). I can install the 12s cassettes and apply 40Nm of torque, all good, all straight. I go for a ride and after some sprints or some intervals on hills, the shifting gets pretty bad. Clicking, rubbing, sometimes even jumping between two cogs. It took a while for me to figure out that the cassette somehow moved on the freehub. It looks like a wheel that took a hit from the side. Have a look here:



The cassette itself is not loose and the centerlock ring is still tight. I can remove the cassette, install it back on, everything straight. During the next ride, it moves again. Baffles me completely… The exact same thing on both wheels with RD-230 hubs.

For reference, the same 12s cassettes remain perfectly seated in my other wheels from DT Swiss with 11s Shimano freehubs. And there was no problem with 11s cassettes on both RD-230 hubs. I wrote Farsports about this. Maybe their hub is not really 12s compatible after all. If you look at the back of the cassette, 11s and 12s look different – apart from the new freehub design itself obviously.

I’m not blaming anyone but I would like to hear if others found something similar with either Farsports or other hubs. I know that some have shifting problems with their new 12s Shimano groupsets. Best to check if your cassettes run true or not.

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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

For what wheelset is the derailleur indexed? Because there can be slight variations in hubs that make the cassette sit 1 mm more inboard or outboard.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

I have had a rear wheel where the freehub wouldn’t not run true and caused shifting issues. It looked exactly like what your video shows- the whole cassette is wobbly. I received a replacement wheel under warrantee and all was good. This is a freehub issue and not a cassette issue. The cassette is locked onto the freehub. The movement that you see is not from the cassette moving against the freehub but rather the freehub not running true against the hub.


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Maddie
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by Maddie

I also think it must be related to the freehub and not the cassette. But what is interesting is that my 11s Shimano cassettes run true on both RD-230 freehubs and they did so for more than 10k. During this time, I removed and remounted the cassettes frequently and never had an issue. When I mount 12s Shimano cassettes on these freehubs, they are perfectly true before I ride them and during the ride, they somehow run out of true. I know this sounds like an installation error but I wouldn't know what can be done wrong if all cogs are straight after installation and the centerlock ring catches all threads and is torqued to 40Nm...

Mike1
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by Mike1

I had the exact same issue with a 12 speed Dura Ace cassette on some RD230 hubs. My cassette spun exactly like in your video. I removed the little silver spacer that was half falling off my cassette and I haven't had an issue since. Not sure what purpose the little ring has.
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Maddie
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by Maddie

Thanks for your feedback, Mike. So it's not an isolated case. And great to hear that it worked out for you without using the ring. I think I will do some back to back tests without ring and with the new ring/spacer and report back.

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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

They should have just released a completely new freehub body, the HG standard is a big mess. I am curious if we will see more brands using the 12s specific body

Maddie
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by Maddie

I agree. Also curious to see how durable 11s freehubs will be with 12s cassettes in the long run. I'd definitely prefer to have a specific 12s freehub on my wheels. Not changing to Dura Ace wheels though

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by bikeboy1tr

I am looking at purchasing a set of DA C60 wheelset which is 11sp but I need to run 12sp cassette and wondering if anyone has a line on Shimano cassettes instock currently. I am also wondering if its possible to get a campy freehub for the DA wheelset?
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joeyb1000
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by joeyb1000

Buy a new freehb body.

Maddie
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by Maddie

So, my tests are completed. There are two solutions, both work just fine. Either remove the glued ring and re-install the cassette without the ring according to @Mike1 or add a 0.5mm shim ring with an ID of 35 or 34mm. DIN 988 shim rings work fine for that. I used a ID35 / OD45 shim ring.

Image

Problem resolved, cassette stays true.

I already saw that not only Farsports hub are affected by this. I think we will see more cases in the future.

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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

So the classsic "sure its compatible" :)

Maddie
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by Maddie

Exactly 😬

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

I googled it and found a short discussion on it. One would think that even without it the cassette shouldn't creak provided that the lockring was properly tightened to the 40nm spec. One guy managed to warp the ring. Your ring also looks a bit warped. It's a bad design for sure and I would certainly choose to run the cassette without it.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topi ... sive-ring/

Omiar
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by Omiar

robbosmans wrote:
Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:34 am
They should have just released a completely new freehub body, the HG standard is a big mess. I am curious if we will see more brands using the 12s specific body
They provided compability because that what the user base was/is loudly demanding. You know - customer is king. And now we have it.

On another note, ZIPP and DT Swiss wheels/freehubs here with CS-8100 cassette and no issues.
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