New powermeter rumours

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

AZR3
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: Az USA

by AZR3

Just read through his review and I'm very tempted to sell my P2M units and just go with the Assioma Duos.
Last edited by AZR3 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

by Weenie


Nefarious86
Moderator
Posts: 2026
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:57 am
Contact:

by Nefarious86

It's a shame everything pedal based is on keo-ish cleats...
Using Tapatalk

3Pio
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Im also thinking to get Favero Assiomo Duo's.

And having dilemma between them and Garmin Vector 3 just because of Cycling Dynamics that Garmin offer and is missing in Assiomo (like Platform Center Offset, Power Phase...). Look to me that this analytics can help even more to find perfect position and not to provide just power Data's

So is it this more advanced analytics worth or just look good on paper, but not usefull in real world?

robertbb
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Nefarious86 wrote:It's a shame everything pedal based is on keo-ish cleats...


This. How hard would it be to build a pod similar to the Vector 3's and AssDuo's that sits between a speedplay and the crank. Or inside a speedplay spindle. Speedplay would be on a massive winner if they were working on this... way to expand their business.
It's ALL about the bike.

kwakekeham
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:03 pm

by kwakekeham

3Pio wrote:So is it this more advanced analytics worth or just look good on paper, but not usefull in real world?


This data is, as mentioned, totally unique to Garmin. It requires sending some specific commands that are proprietary to the Edge and Vector series. It's not part of a the ANT+ standard (version 5.0, maybe in 6.0 because 5.0 has provisions for this). So combination of say Wahoo + Vector 3 means you don't get this metric (But could in the future). So firstly, you must have a Garmin Edge to use these metrics and not just the Vector pedals.

I have not seen any publications on this, and the value of most papers I've read about cycling performance related to power training use sample sizes so small that the results are generally pretty suspect. (oval ring controversy for example. Of about 10 studies published that I know of, none of them have more than single digit participants. "Publish or die" academia).

The other side is that some of the data produced can't be produced by a competitor product, let alone 2 simultaneously, so the data can't yet be validated as correct.

So right now it's a nice to have, but no methods published for analysis in any training theory books, no controversial papers yet (I hope I'm wrong, please point some out if you know them), no validation of the data or methods, and a requirement to have an ecosystem that produces (vector), records (edge) and analyzes (does Training Peaks online do this yet? WKO+ can I believe, but most sites I know of don't. Garmin connect displays the graphs and the averages but I haven't seen anyone know what to do with it yet).

So it's a feature for the nerds that want data, but not much consensus on what to do with it. Love if someone could point me at something that says otherwise.

User avatar
ms6073
Posts: 2293
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

Its an interesting question seeing as CompuTrainer offered the SpinScan function in the application and even Polar's first powermeter, the Polar CS600 with Power provided left/right balance metrics brought it into the mainstream. So seems like there should already be an answer given that such data has been available for at least 10-years on. Part of the issue might be that aside from recovering from an injury where seeing the L/R balance could be a very useful metric, otherwise, seems like it is still a poorly understood, possibly over-hyped training metric.
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

AZR3
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: Az USA

by AZR3

Took the plunge, ordered the Duo, now just have to wait till October for them to ship....anyone interested in a P2M Type S with Rotor 3D+ crank?

eaglejackson
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:26 am
Location: PNW

by eaglejackson

robertbb wrote:
Nefarious86 wrote:It's a shame everything pedal based is on keo-ish cleats...


This. How hard would it be to build a pod similar to the Vector 3's and AssDuo's that sits between a speedplay and the crank. Or inside a speedplay spindle. Speedplay would be on a massive winner if they were working on this... way to expand their business.

One of the first pedal based power meter companies was a startup whose name I'm drawing a blank on. Their original plan was to base it on Speedplay pedals but Speedplay said NFW and shut the Speedplay based effort down. Said company then used some Look compatible pedal as the base. The company had a hard time getting all the bugs out and reliable enough for production, and ended selling to Look, who completed the product. It's what the Look Power is based on.

I too wish Speedplay would get off the stick and build a power meter pedal. I've used their pedals since they first came out. Because of my biomechanics, I need the free float of their pedals and can't use Keo type ones. I'd much rather have Speedplay power pedals than a crank based power meter.

djwalker
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:35 pm

by djwalker

I think that you are referring to Metrigear which had a Speedplay based PM. They were bought by Garmin and became the Vector.

eaglejackson
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:26 am
Location: PNW

by eaglejackson

djwalker wrote:I think that you are referring to Metrigear which had a Speedplay based PM. They were bought by Garmin and became the Vector.
Ah yes, that's it, and thanks for correcting me about the acquirer.

I still wish there were a Speedplay power meter pedal!.

Here's a Bike Radar article from 2009 about the MetriGear Vector when it announced at Interbike and still Speedplay based then. http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/interbike-new-vector-power-meter-from-metrigear-23513/

User avatar
micky
Posts: 4632
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Vicenza
Contact:

by micky

The point is that like it or not, most of people use Look pedals (beware, Im not a Look pedals user nor a Speedplay).
Years ago Speedplay was a bigger player in the market but recently you see less and less of them.
But Im pretty sure that with all these pedal based powermeters appearing, sooner or later there will be more options.

3Pio
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

One other thing that i dont understund, is why nobody tell surface contact area of pedal based powermeters.

I was using Time Xpresso 10 pedals, and switched to Look KEO 2 Max Carbon, just to test Look system. When i realize i prefered vs Time, i ordered Look Keo Blade 2 Carbon Ti pedals. Blade 2 vs Max Carbon have bigger contact surface area, and also lower stack and i find them much better. Not sure how surface contact area help or maybe lower stack, but definetely better.

So im wondering how much of "just pedal" performance are compromised on PedalBased powermeters like Garmin Vector 3 (they have higher stack as i can see, like 12.5 mm and no information about contact surface area), and same question about Assioma Favero (they have 10.5 mm stack, and i ask them about contact surface area, they replied that someone from technical support will reply soon, and never happened).

On reviews im reading no detailed things about just "Pedal carateristics" of them.

Also i really like Non Grip LOOk Cleats (no creaking noise, they last very long...). DC RainMaker suggested that he is not satisfied with Look Cleats on Favero, so he use provided cleats (X-Pedo i guess), which have some rubber grip as i can see on the pictures. My experience with LOOK Rubber Grip version cleats, was a lot of cracking noise nad not silent at all. So wonder how is the situation here as well?

And to adjust my cleats i found usefull ERGON Look Cleat tool. When i bought compatible cleats their shape was a bit different then original, so could not use this tool. How is the situation about this with provided cleats?

AZR3
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: Az USA

by AZR3


by Weenie


User avatar
ms6073
Posts: 2293
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

eaglejackson wrote:I still wish there were a Speedplay power meter pedal!.

Here's a Bike Radar article from 2009 about the MetriGear Vector when it announced at Interbike and still Speedplay based

The owner of Speedplay is his own worst enemy, threatening legal action against anyone who tries to make an aftermarket inovation, so unless either Garmin or similar buys the company, or a startup makes a cleat based solution, it is unlikely there will ever be a Speedplay pedal based powermeter.
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post