New powermeter rumours

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
eaglejackson
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:26 am
Location: PNW

by eaglejackson

ms6073 wrote:
eaglejackson wrote:I still wish there were a Speedplay power meter pedal!.

Here's a Bike Radar article from 2009 about the MetriGear Vector when it announced at Interbike and still Speedplay based

The owner of Speedplay is his own worst enemy, threatening legal action against anyone who tries to make an aftermarket inovation, so unless either Garmin or similar buys the company, or a startup makes a cleat based solution, it is unlikely there will ever be a Speedplay pedal based powermeter.

Sad but true.

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havana
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:04 pm

by havana

Personally I don't really understand why so many WW's are so crazy about Speedplay. I tried them, but really think they don't offer any benefits over SPD-SL, Time or Look. I think they are highly overrated.

In fact, IMO there are mainly cons. Expensive, not very durable, hardly possible to walk on the cleats, adapters needed for most shoes.
Last edited by havana on Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Most "innovations" in cycling are solutions for non-existing problems.

by Weenie


eaglejackson
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:26 am
Location: PNW

by eaglejackson

havana wrote:Personally I don't really understand why so many WW's are so crazy about Speedplay. I tried them, but really think there don't offer any benefits over SPD-SL, Time or Look. I think they are highly overrated.

In fact, IMO there are mainly cons. Expensive, not very durable, hardly possible to walk on the cleats, adapters needed for most shoes.

There are lots of threads on Speedplay pedals. Pedals are a highly personal choice. The two biggest distinguishing characteristics are the free float (15 degrees for the Zero and 28 degrees for the X series) and they are two sided. If neither of these matter to you, then other pedals may be more to your liking.

PS. I also meant to say (thanks for the mention, Bilwit) that Speedplay also has walkable cleats for the Zero and Light Action, which make them very easy to walk in. I ride with X-2 pedals, as I prefer the extra float, and for those, Kool Kovers makes cleat covers that stay attached to the cleats and make them easy to walk in.

PPS. Another advantage is that Speedplay makes cleat extenders, which allows you to position the cleats further rearward (and forward). I use them, as does Lennard Zinn.
Last edited by eaglejackson on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

bilwit
Posts: 435
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Location: Seattle, WA

by bilwit

havana wrote:Personally I don't really understand why so many WW's are so crazy about Speedplay. I tried them, but really think there don't offer any benefits over SPD-SL, Time or Look. I think they are highly overrated.

In fact, IMO there are mainly cons. Expensive, not very durable, hardly possible to walk on the cleats, adapters needed for most shoes.


If they're good enough for the current Hour Record holder then they're good enough for me 8)

(also, if you get the newer "walkable" zeros in cromoly and then change the spindles to Ti, that addresses all your problems except for the adapters which I never had to deal with on my Giro Empires or Bont Zeros)

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ms6073
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Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

eaglejackson wrote:
havana wrote:I tried them, but really think they don't offer any benefits over SPD-SL, Time or Look.

If it weren't for my wife's finicky knees, I would have no experience with Speedplay pedals, but she refuses to use anything else.
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pdlpsher1
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Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I switched from Speedplay to Shimano and I'm so happy that I did. I feel an increasing in power transfer and less wasted energy. All of my power are going to the pedals. Less maintenance and much cheaper cleats.


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fogman
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:36 pm

by fogman

Does anyone know the approximate weight increase of a Campagnolo Power2Max NG crank vs. a Campagnolo Super Record (non power meter) crank?


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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv



I'm glad that Ray confirmed "Note that Vector 3 does not support the Shimano swappage kit that Vector 1/2 did. Maybe down the road, but nothing in the cards today."
I sure hope that Garmin will release the Shimano swappage kit by mid-2018.
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Delorre
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Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm

by Delorre

fogman wrote:Does anyone know the approximate weight increase of a Campagnolo Power2Max NG crank vs. a Campagnolo Super Record (non power meter) crank?


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Campa S-type is claimed to be 644 without rings. NG should be about the same

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

My experience with various spider-based power meters has been that they add at least 140g over the equivalent bare crankset.

jever98
Posts: 780
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:02 pm

by jever98

TobinHatesYou wrote:My experience with various spider-based power meters has been that they add at least 140g over the equivalent bare crankset.


That's a touch on the high side. P2m type s Rotor 3D added 126g in compact. P2m has or had listings.
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uraqt
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am

by uraqt

The V3 can't be put in Shimano the batteries go in the body side of the axle. That is not to say that Garmin might just build axle for companies. However since they just spent small fortune building a pedal factory I kinda doubt it.

3Pio
Posts: 831
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

jever98 wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:My experience with various spider-based power meters has been that they add at least 140g over the equivalent bare crankset.


That's a touch on the high side. P2m type s Rotor 3D added 126g in compact. P2m has or had listings.


Interesting question and listed weights. So seem that less weight difference will be added with Favero Assioma pedals (108 gm vs my Look Blade 2 Ti (Favero Assioma are 300 gm, Look Blade 2 Ti 192 gm).

If we consider that i can remove the garmin cadence sensor, even less (dont know what is actual weight of Garmin Cadence Sensor plus rubbers).

And how much weight add Stages left crank vs regular crank?

And another thing that im wondering about pedal PowerMeters... Do they have any compromises in their primary function over regular pedals? (let's compare them to Look Blade 2 Ti).

Why im asking this?

1. Surface Contact Area - Look Blade 2 Ti have 700mm (same Time Xpresso).

If u analyze pictures of Assioma Favero and Garmin Vector 3, is more then clear that they have much less surface area (i guess one of the ways how to save some weight).

As i understund less surface contact area, less stable pedaling platform.

So how this relate in real world? Specially climbing efforts, or long distance riding? How big compromise is this?

2. Stack height - Assioma Favero have the same stack as Look Blade 2 Ti (10.5), but Garmin Vector 3 have 12.5

What is benefit of low stack height? And what is compromised here with Garmin's and 12.5 mm stack?

3. Advanced Cycling dynamics of Garmins over Assioma.

Everywhere i can read that this data is not too much important. But to me look that this advanced cycling analysis can help in determining the best cleat position, and not just cleat position. That can help in bike fitting and final adjustmens.

mag
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

Delorre wrote:
fogman wrote:Does anyone know the approximate weight increase of a Campagnolo Power2Max NG crank vs. a Campagnolo Super Record (non power meter) crank?

Campa S-type is claimed to be 644 without rings. NG should be about the same

On page 206 c60rider weighted the whole set at 780g: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54198&start=3075#p1296708
This is about 177g added to the SR crankset weight (based on the claimed SR crankset weight of 603g).

But the Campy P2M crank is technically somewhere between Record and SR (steel axle like Record, CULT ceramic bearings like SR) which have claimed weights about 651g and 603g, so if we want to narrow it down to the actual PM weight the difference will be less.

Type S has claimed sensor weight 188g: https://www.power2max.de/europe/en/Prod ... nolo-road/
The same information for the NG is missing, but as for example:
- Type S for Rotor 3D+ has claimed sensor weights 172/187g: https://www.power2max.de/europe/en/Prod ... rennrad-2/
- NG for Rotor 3D+ has claimed sensor weights 152/167g: https://www.power2max.de/europe/en/Prod ... wer-meter/
we can estimate the NG for Campagnolo could be similarly lighter (by 20g) which would get the sensor weight to about 168g.

By the way what would be the most WW PM solution giving total power data (not just doubled single-leg data)? My guess is THM Clavicula SE with Favero Assioma pedals...
And what would be a decent alternative for crank based PM (excluding the ridiculously expensive SRM+Clavicula M3 option)?

AndreLM
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:53 pm

by AndreLM

mag wrote:By the way what would be the most WW PM solution giving total power data (not just doubled single-leg data)? My guess is THM Clavicula SE with Favero Assioma pedals...
And what would be a decent alternative for crank based PM (excluding the ridiculously expensive SRM+Clavicula M3 option)?


Probably (the still not available) Specialized Power Cranks (AFAIK co-developed with 4iiii)
or
Cannondale SiSL2 with spiderings and Watteam Powerbeat sensors

and your choice of WW pedals

Both would only fit BB30/PF30/OSBB/T47 frames though

by Weenie


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