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 Post subject: Re: 718 Gram wheelset
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:29 am 
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Posts: 229
Location: Boulder, CO
madcow wrote:
Being WW, I think this may be of some interest to some:

http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtop ... f=3&t=6057


Awesome wheels, Mr. MadCow.

I'm curious why they are lighter than the 776 gram wheels we recently built. We used the 1.24 EDGE rims, 20/24, with ExtraLite SX front and rear hubs and Pillar Ti spokes. The EDGE rims we used were 210, or maybe 212 grams each. I realize that the M5 hub is a few grams lighter, but where did the rest of the weight savings come from? Are the new rims that much lighter?

Again, beautiful wheels.

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 Post subject: Re: 718 Gram wheelset
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:29 am 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:53 am 
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Location: Germany
imho jasons rims were about 192grams and 195grams :idea:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:38 pm 
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Okay -- that's 35 grams. That drops them from 776 to 741 grams.

Nico's wheels:
20-spoke front: 338
24-spoke rear: 438
rims: 210 to 212 (uncertain)

Madcow's wheels:
20-spoke front: 303
24-spoke rear: 415
rims: 192 and 195

delta front: 35 grams
delta rear: 23 grams

delta rims: 15-17 and 18-20

So maybe the rear has a 20-gram difference on the rims. That leaves a max 17 gram difference on the front. This leaves an 18 gram difference in the rest of the front hardware. It leaves 3 grams unaccounted on the rear.

The M5 hub is rated 40 grams by Fairwheel.
The Extralite is rated 50 grams, also by Fairwheel.
Fairwheel posts only honest weights.

So 10 grams saved by the front hub. That leaves 8 grams unaccounted for on the front wheel difference, 11 grams total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:03 pm 
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I think the M5 flanged front hub weighs 33 grams. That would account for some of the discrepancy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:13 pm 
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I'm sure nicrump can top them coz, if i remember correctly, he owns even lighter 1.24 rims... :unbelievable:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Now 1 gram difference on front, 3 on back. Close enough. The next question is at what cost that 17 gram weight difference on the front hub on what already appears to be a highly optimized Extralite? Reliability and/or bearing friction? Worrisome.

I like the savings from the new rim. I'm not sure I'd go with the M5 over the Extralight front though. The too-good-to-be-true alarm is ringing...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:18 pm 
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Location: Slovenia---that forest land
try to weight them on same scale...maby there is diferent gravitation force :lol:

What is spoke tension on that wheels?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:25 pm 
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I expect bearing longevity to be the greatest sacrifice with the M5 front hub. I've used the AC Micro front hub with the same bearings. They seem to last at least a couple of years and are cheap to replace. I don't buy into the "greater bearing friction" argument against the hubs.

I'm sure that the Alchemy ELF front hub and many others will build a slightly stiffer wheel. Given the titanium spokes, maximum stiffness is obviously not the theme of these wheels. I'm only looking for adequate stiffness for the climbing applications they are intended for.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:15 pm 
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@mca 56

I don't think an ELF will build a stiffer front wheel than the M5 SP front. If you had wanted added stiffness, you could have sacrificed 10gm and gone with the straight pull M5 front hub which has wider spoke head placement than the flanged version and still saved the maximum weight possible. Wheels like this are always a balance, and the balance you and Fair Wheel have found is a nice one for the purpose proposed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:03 pm 
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Location: Austin, TX
:shock:

That is a very impressive wheelset! Can't wait to hear a ride report.

I told my wife that I just saw a wheelset easily lighter than her rear wheel. She just laughed at me and told me no you can't have them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:07 pm 
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dave99.........we nust have married twins. Mine said the same thing when I mentioned them :cry:

John

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:18 pm 
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mca56 wrote:
I expect bearing longevity to be the greatest sacrifice with the M5 front hub. I've used the AC Micro front hub with the same bearings. They seem to last at least a couple of years and are cheap to replace. I don't buy into the "greater bearing friction" argument against the hubs.


There is very little in common with these two hubs. And bearing quality is almost incomparable. Once again, bearing quality even at this size varies enormously - you can have an R6 bearing that can stand a 300kg static load for goodness sake.

The M5 flanged front hubs are much more robust than the tiny size suggests.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:04 pm 
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Cyclist in the Sun wrote:
@ nicrump

I'm sure there is a way :twisted:


Actually that would be right, we are talking to a couple of companies about doing something custom for Interbike that would be about 50-60 grams lighter than this set. Hopefully it will work out.

@nico and Dj. I didn't write down the individual weights but if I remember right these two rims were 192 and 193 grams. I also think the front hub was 32gr and the rear was 133gr.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:33 pm 
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great, well done, great!
they're 200 grams lighter than my ventoux!


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 Post subject:
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:33 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:43 pm 
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Location: Denmark
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 00&start=0
Dont forget these ones :wink: But nice wheels. I think they are much more "safe" than a lot of other wheels in that "weightclass".


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