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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:30 pm 
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Location: Colorado
Hey guys,

I have an opertunity to trade my DA 7800 wheels for either a set of brand new 2005 silver american classic 350's ( weight 1300g) or a set of 420's ( weight 1440g)

Would you guys trade the DA wheels, or should I keep them?

Or if I did trade which other set would you take?

I use to have both 350's and 420's, never got to ride the 350's before I sold them, and the 420's I thought were alright, but sold them because I could get lateral flex. I should note my old 420's were 16/20 spoke count thiough, the set i would get is 18/24. The 350's are 28/32.

Which wheel is lateraly stiffer? How do they compare on lateral stiffness to Ksyriums in those spoke counts?

Thanks for the help.

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Last edited by Superlite on Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:35 pm 
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SL, if these are not race wheels, I would keep the DA's. To me they feel stouter even though they may be a little heavier. Definitely a stable descender. The hubs are nearly bombproof and should be trouble free for a long time. If I could trade them for ksyriums I would do that, as personally I don't think there is a nicer all around comparable wheel.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:05 pm 
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Keep your DA wheels if you can. If your looking for 350's or 420's I'd go 350's all the way. Just my .02 :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:33 pm 
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Anyone else? I'm getting low on time. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:17 pm 
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I'd keep the DA's of you're going to be training on them. If they're race wheels, I'd give the AC's a try.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:21 pm 
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My dad rides the 350s as an everyday wheel. He weights 185-190 pounds depending. In MN too, so our roads are pretty crappy. He doesn't put a lot of miles but jsut the fact he weighs so much is a testament to their strength. So far there have been no problems and I would so go for it. I don't like run of the mill wheels anyhow.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:54 pm 
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The 350's are specifically climbing wheels while the 420's are a light, aero and cheap climbing wheels.

The new model (Australian specs) has Swiss steel bladed spokes made in Tawian and a new hub design (Aust has the option of a bombproof MTB hub upgrade at no charge).

I've never got the rim to rub on my brake pad, but I've heard a few people complain about their stiffness compared to the Ks.

420's are a great wheel for juniors while they save for more expensive wheels but don't measure up to deep section racing wheels.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:16 am 
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Thanks guys, but I still can't decide! :lol:

I should mention I weigh 140lbs, but I have a tendency to flex stuff.

Anyone ridden the 420's with the 18/24 spoke count? I had the 16/20 bladed and I thought they were too flexy, is the 18/24 better, or just marginally?

Remember, it's DA 7800 or 420's or 350's. Which one....... Lateral stiffness is my main concern. I will probly sell the wheels after 1 or 2 seasons, so they don't need to last 10 years, though it would be nice. lol

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:33 am 
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so you are about to trade a set of reliable, light and stiff wheels for some lighter but flexy and unreliable set? thats not sound good for me. :noidea:

your scott is not the lightest, but is one of the most durable and trouble free bikes here, please dont trash such a great bike with such hubs. :wink:

i really dont know that its soooo dificult to make a decent hub, but after following the AM attempt in build a decent hubset for at least 5 years, i guess im wrong... :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:55 am 
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I'm using 20/24 and have had no complaints about stiffness (I'm a time trialer not a sprinter). I weigh 150lbs.

I know you have other wheels so it would help if you told us what you are using this wheelset for (where are your priorities?).

I havn't seen the new rear hub as yet.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:06 am 
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Plan on using the wheels for everything, racing, though very limited this year, training and pleanty of fast group rides.

I have owned the following wheelsets high end wheels


Spinergy Spox
Velomax Ascent II
American Classic 420 16/20 bladed
Mavic Ksyriums SL2's

The one I like best is the Ksyriums, I loved how stiff the wheels are laterally.

All the other wheels I felt were laterally flexy, but still good wheels.

I live in Colorado, so the Rockey Mountains are my back yard, everywhere is up! SO they will definatly be used to climb, lol.

@ Bruiser, have your ever ridden Ksyriums and able to compare lateral stiffness to the 420's? What spokes are on yours? Would you buy them again?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:29 am 
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I havn't used Ks though I might borrow a friends soon. Sorry can't help with the flex question, but my impression was that Ks are much stiffer. Can ask a friend if you need a first hand comparison.

I wouldn't buy the 2004 model again for a few reasons which AC say they have addressed.

I've broken 3 spokes and am waiting on the next so I can relace the wheel.
Rear hub gave me trouble.

I used my 420s for racing only, and while their capable as training rims, I'm not happy with the rear hub and thus only use it on race day.

420 is more aero and lighter than the 7800s.
7800s have a more durable hub and are stiffer.

Assuming budget constraints, I'd use the 2004 420s as race wheels for hills and keep another set of wheels for training.

2005 420s might be good enough for racing and training, but check for yourself which model they are (their also much cheaper than 7800s so I hope it's not a straight swap).


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:32 am 
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I know for a fact they are 2005 model with the 58 and 205 hubs. The silver color gives them away to lol.

If you could ask your friend for a comparison it would really help. Liake I have said, I use to own the 420's, 2004 model with 16/20 bladed spokes, but laterally I didn't think they were stiff enough.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:44 am 
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Superlite wrote:
The one I like best is the Ksyriums, I loved how stiff the wheels are laterally.


SL, do you really feel the Ksyriums are the stiffest ? I've been using Ksyriums for almost a year now (19000 km) and they are certainly not stiff IMO (I weight 71 kg). If the other wheels are more flexy, they should be flexy as hell.

On your wheel choice ...
If I were you wouldnt doubt one second, I'd go DA. I know someone who ride CX with these wheels and they are indestructable, very stiff and realiable.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:28 am 
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SL, for what it's worth I have a (very wealthy) buddy (about 165#) who has or had the following wheels:
'03 or '04 AC 420 (sent them back 3 times for hub/bearing issues, finally gave up)
'04 AC 350 (had some problems, and said they were not stiff, sold them)
'03 Campa Electron (or whatever the top '03 model was) (still has them, says they're great)
'03 or '04 Ksyrium SL (said they were too stiff, a bit uncomfortable but solid, sold them)
'04 Reynolds Stratus (loves them, uses them the most)
'05 Cosmic Carbone (stiff, strong, but heavy)

Out of them all he prefers the Stratus and the Campa, and then the Ksyrium.
I would keep the DA or upgrade to a better wheel (maybe a Cirrus).
Either AC is no real upgrade.

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