Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:17 pm
For more information there is a long thread on Velonnews.com on this exact topic."
Wasn't able to find that thread, but any thoughts on this?
here is the article.
whatever you do listen to DaveS. he's the man.
With this feedback, I have to officially recommend against using an 11-speed chain with 10-speed chainrings, at least Campagnolo (and Fulcrum) ones. And Campagnolo is very clear in its warranty policy that nothing is covered unless the entire 11-speed group is used together — no substitutions.
However, I've been riding for months on 10-speed cranks with the 11-speed Super Record group, and I've never had any problem. I've used it with both SRAM Red chainrings and Shimano Ultegra SL chainrings without a hint of shifting hesitation, much less getting stuck. And as you may have read in my article on Shimano Di2 electronic in the current print edition of VeloNews, I shifted this combination under extreme loads repeatedly, trying to duplicate the performance of the electronic front derailleur with a cable-actuated one.
As I feel is my duty, I will continue to try cross-compatibility issues, since lots of readers ask me about them. They expect an answer other than the one the manufacturer would give, which is of course always to the effect that all of the parts need to be used together as a system.
I avoid advising people on setups I have not tried, but I've tried this one pretty thoroughly, albeit not with Campy 10-speed chainrings. Similarly, when the change from 9-speed to 10 came, I used 9-sped cranks on 10-speed groups interchangeably for years and never had a problem.
As I have switched Campy, SRAM, and Shimano 10-speed cranks all around on each other's 10-speed groups for years without problems, I would not have expected that it would have mattered which brand of 10-speed cranks you used with the 11-speed chain, but perhaps it does. I have to say that I’m very surprised. The chain is 0.5mm narrower than the Campy 10-speed chain. That’s not much.
I remember hearing once about a chain jamming between chainrings when I was racing —I think it was at the 1981 U.S. nationals time trial in Bear Mountain, New York. Somebody told me that a top rider, whom I had expected to do very well in the TT, had jammed his chain between his chainrings; he had been using a 7-speed chain on a 6-speed Dura-Ace Dyna-Drive crank.
I was also on a Shimano-sponsored team, racing on Dura-Ace EX and AX, but I was still using the same 180mm Campy Super Record crank that I’d used for 5-speed and 6-speed (because Shimano did not offer a crank longer than 175mm back then). Those were some big differences in chain widths as the widths started coming down back then, but nobody thought twice about mixing cranks from different generations with them, and that’s the only incident I remember of somebody jamming a chain.
Shimano’s spacing between cogs has narrowed from 3.70mm for 5- and 6-speed, to 3.10mm for 7-speed, 3.00mm for 8-speed, 2.56mm for 9-speed, and 2.35mm for 10-speed. When SunTour introduced narrow Ultra-7 freewheels in the early 1980s, Shimano countered with wider freehub bodies that fit seven widely spaced cogs (at 3.70mm apart) and the wide 6-speed Shimano chain. But at the time, we all started using Sedis Sport chains, because they were cheap (four bucks!), they worked well, and, most importantly, they were narrow and worked with any of the new 7-speed narrow systems. And it never occurred to any of us at the time to switch cranks because we were using that chain. Sedis merged with Maillard, which was acquired by Sachs, which was purchased by SRAM, and so the Sedis chain lives on!
Campagnolo’s 5.9mm-wide 10-speed chain (its first-generation 10-speed chains were 6.1mm wide) allows 10 cogs to fit in the same space that used to only accept nine with the wider 9-speed chain and cogset, and now the even narrower 5.4mm wide 11-speed chain allows 11 cogs to fit in that same space. The thickness of the spacers on either side of each cog has come down as far as 2.2mm with 11-speed, whereas the width of each chain roller and thickness of each cog has stayed the same. The tooth-to-tooth distance on Campagnolo 9-speed is 4.55mm, 4.15mm on Campagnolo 10-speed, and 3.9mm on Campagnolo 11-speed. Chainring tooth spacing is hard to measure, because of the height difference between the two rings, but the spacing between cogs is only 0.25mm less on 11-speed than on 10-speed! That’s not much.
One final note: When I told Dave Batka, the president of Wheels Manufacturing, about this jammed chain, he said: “I hate to say it, Lennard, but I can’t believe this at all. I’ve got 600 miles on my new 11-speed chain with 10-speed chainrings and it has never even come close to jamming in between the chainrings. You may quote me, if you wish.”
So there you have it, from both sides of the debate. Forewarned is forearmed.
_________________riding Pinarellos with Super Record since 842009 SR Pino
QC is a management function, NOT country of origin