Maestro - Colnago

[Rodrego Hernandez]

Mike at Maestro is a good guy, been around for a long time and is the go to guy for Colnagos. There is no such thing as a 'grey import' within the EU, previous posts about this seem to prove that this misinformation goes on. I bought a Colnago from Mike and he prepared the frame better than any other dealer I have ever used. Will definitely use him again.

[jerk]

This seems to be a never ending argument and in our opinion fuelled by companies / shops that are unable to compete in a competitive market with Maestro UK. All Maestro’s frames are new Colnagos not "team" repaints - Mike is taking legal advice over this statement. Does anybody really believe teams keep such vast array of sizes and models ready unpainted ‘just in case’; this is just another angle on a dying argument?
Mike at Maestro UK has asked he to paste a previous statement made on Bike Radar more information about illegal price cartels can be found on the homepage of Maestro's website: http://www.maestro-uk.com.

Maestro does not have any connection or business relationship with Ernesto – see below for detailed sourcing of Maestro Colnagos. Ernesto Colnago will never shut down so called “grey” markets because they sell his frames.

Mike at Maestro, has been selling Colnagos for many years, the supplier has always been the same one, a business relationship that has lasted for over 30 years this supplier is Codagex.NV, the Benelux distributor for Colnago, and Colnagos business partner, as such, he is authorised to paint Colnagos, by Colnago, to this end he has his own paint shop, in which many other firms have their frames painted, Merck for one, when Rabobank had Colnagos, theirs too, and Landbouwkrediet, plus numerous other Belgian teams throughout the years have been painted there, this allows for custom, and old colour schemes, and repaints, this is a service not offered by the UK distributor, who has only been involved with Colnagos for a couple of years, and does not have this facility. The painters are all trained each year in the new colours.

With respect to warranty, Mike does offer longer warranty than the one covered by law, under the retail sales laws, all warranty claims must be addressed to the retailer, or point of sale, this is Mike for Maestro customers, he will then take the problem to Codagex, who will arrange for Colnago to deal with it, this is no different to any other shop, who will deal with their distributor, who will deal with the manufacturer.

All the attacks being made on this forum against Mike, are in my opinion, instigated by the authorised dealer network, (it happened on Roadbike Review) designed to persuade people, to pay the much higher prices set by the network, even washing machine post, who now seems to support the retail prices set by Windwave, (see his site) as he now gets bikes to "test" from them, whereas in the past he was a critic of this dealer system.

As an aside, Mavic are now going down the authorised network route, so watch for Mavic prices being more rigid, and higher, in the future. Campagnolo as well, who in the USA are setting minimum retail prices, and will disconnect anyone who breaks them, how long before it arrives in the UK?

no one is slandering maestro bub....just the way in which ernesto chooses to distribute his product. he will never gain any market share in the us as long as he allows codagex to continue their practices.


maestro is selling colnagos cheaper than dealers in the us can buy them. the paint quality is not the same but even if it were, it means that us bike shops would rather sell other brands than colnago. you show a customer a bike they can get for 40% less somewhere else and the client's immediate thought is that they are getting ripped off, even if they would never consider buying a bike from a foreign re-seller.

you need to be less thin skinned. nothing maestro is doing is wrong. no one claims it to be wrong. what colnago is doing is however, contrary to growth in the us market.

as i said before, were i a retail customer i would buy all my colnagos from maestro.

case in point-were i able to sell trek madones mail-order to europe i would in the dozens. this wouldn't be wrong, it would be smart business. but if i did, trek would cut me off, so i can't/won't.

jerk

[monty dog]

I'm lucky enough to live not too far from Mike's shop and like many Colnago owners I ride and race with have been very happy with his pricing and support. It seems to me that the various 'official' UK distributors (this is a complete oxymoron under the concept of EU trade) try to discredit him. Everyone knows Mike sources his bikes from Benelux - which he is entitled to do under EU trade and because he then deals direct, doesn't add another 25-30% 'distributor' margin. If the likes of Windwave and Veltec can't live with that in these modern times, then suggest they perhaps need to look at their own business models rather than resort to defamitory techniques - fwiw in the time that Mike's been selling Colnago's there's been at least 4 or 5 'official' distributors. Finally, on the subject of Belgian painting - they are know as one of the best refinishers in Europe - I'd trust Belgian paint over any Italian.

[NS]

I'll vouch for Mike too, I bought my C50 off him a few years back and he was great, it was on time and his product knowledge, phone manner and honesty were all you could ask for in a retailer.
It was my second Colnago and the first was "official" if anything the paintjob on the one from Mike was better. My new EP is "official" but only because I got it cheaper from a LBS than Mike was selling them for as it was in stock. If I had been ordering one I would have used Mike

[bigmonter]

"Price is what you pay, value is what you get."

This comes from a retail consumer point of view who always struggles with the price vs. in person service debate.

I am always surprised by the discussion when it comes to the whole "I can buy this [frame, component, shoe] for XX% less than my local bike shop at [internet website]."

My fascination is with the fact that proponents of the "price is all that matters" camp never seem to conceded that there exists value beyond price, where those who champion the opposite can concede the merit of low price.

While he needs no help in explaining his point of view I can say that Mr. Jerk clearly has no problem with Maestro and said as much, twice. If one where to take the time to read many of his posts (and I have) on this forum and the other 2 or 3 he often posts to, it would be clear that he strives to offer an informed opinion based on experience and always discloses any conflicts to allow the reader to weigh his opinion. Which is what he did in this thread.

To the original posters point at issue, whether to use Maestro. The answer to that question is as malleable as those that deal with what saddle should I use or what bibs are the most comfortable.

Obviously using Maestro or any other of the 3 or 4 internet dealers to source a Colnago, Pinarello, Look, Time, Wilier, etc. for less than what most bike shops pay stateside for a frame has its advantage. Namely price. I am also sure that after 30 years in business one must be providing a certain level of service to stay in business.

So ultimately what it comes down to a mail order transaction is whether the price discount makes up for the lack of in person service. For most people a $3,000 price difference does. And please note that I am saying in-person service.

What that means is if you have a problem with a non-local purchase you have to figure out a way to pack and ship the item to have any issues corrected.

For some people they do not want to deal with the hassle, even at a $3,000 discount. When they buy a luxury item (atmo of what a high end road bike is) that ends up with a problem covered by warranty they don't want to worry about having to pack and ship the item to someplace. They just want to drop it off where they got it and say to the local owner "fix it." Moreover, I would also guess that Mr. Jerk or other high end shops might have the ability to provide a loaner or demo bike for one to use while the frame is being repaired.

For instance, I live in California. Mr. Jerk's shop is on the East Cost of the U.S. So he might as well be in the U.K. for my purposes. But every now and then he will offer some very good bargains to readers of the forums he posts in.

So the lets say I can save $500 or even $1,000 on a frame over what I could buy at my Local shop. Just like Maestro the question is not whether he will stand behind his product the question is whether I want to deal with a long distance relationship for the savings.

So for me if I was in the market for an EPS (and I have thought about it) I would not hesitate to use Maestro. The advantage of saving $3,000 outweighs any of the disadvantages.

But lets say I wanted a CX-1 instead where the savings might be only $1,000 or less or a Master X-light for $500 or less savings. That's a tougher question, especially in light of Mr. Jerk's (or other local shop) ability to provide the value (and all that goes with it) of an in-person purchase.

Steven

[wheelsucker]

I think that there may be something in the 'smear campaign' allocations. Hard to say for sure, as it may just be Trolls on the www.
Either way Maestro frames are legit Colnago's via the authourised distributor. The company has been trading for 30 yes and has good reputation and specialist knowledge.
Frames come via Belgium..hard to find a country with more road cycling heritage than that and as I understand it Maestro has/had close links with the road race scene over there.
If my Colnago was painted in the same factory as a Belgium pro bike then that's fine by me. As mentioned here and elsewhere the Belgium paintjobs appear to be equal to or better than the Italian ones, for the historical Colnago colours which Maestro can supply. Eitherway there is no guarantee where your 2009 Colnago is painted.
Mike is 'old sckool', honest and has integrity. Sadly the era of the afficianados of the sport may be changing. Colnago are now producing bikes in Taiwan and the local race scene in Belgium/Holland is not the same as it was.
But times change. Just time to order a classic from Maestro.
Btw no association, just a happy customer.

[Danton]

I see the shop is Maestro. Is this the same Mike who ran a British-Belgian team in the early 1990s? If so, I think he used to manage a young Leipheimer!

http://www.siteducyclisme.net/ploegfiche.php?id=9374

[LegendRider]

I was in the market for a C50 about a year ago. Despite all the good things I had heard about Maestro, I was a little hesistant. So, I called Veltec to see what the official US distributor had to say. In short, they badmouthed Maestro and implied (but did not state) that his bikes are fake. I was unimpressed with Veltec. And, the more I read on this forum, the more confident I became in dealing with Maestro.

On the other hand, I suppose it's unreasonable to expect them to tell me it was an equivalent product at a much better price. In the end, I found my dream bike from a private seller in Canada at a price better than I could have hoped for.

Colnago retail in the USA is awful. They can't keep a dealer in Atlanta, GA which is fairly large market (population 4+ million). And, as we know, their pricing is awful. I think that the jerk is correct that Colnago is badly managed.

[J-Nice]

No one is slandering maestro bub....just the way in which Ernesto chooses to distribute his product. He will never gain any market share in the US as long as he allows Codagex to continue their practices.

You know this HOW? Do you actually know what type of numbers Maestro does in the US with Colnago frames?

The shop owners I've talked to about this HAVE NEVER mentioned any supposedly "grey market" importing practices as the reason why they don't carry Colnago. They HAVE mentioned crappy price points and the exorbitant minimum number of frames they must keep in stock if they want to carry the brand. Small shops can't compete because they can't afford to.

If the smaller shops received the same price points as R&A, you would see more dealers carrying them. But they are punished for not being able to sell in mass quantities. This is monumentally stupid knowing most shops are small and don't do as much volume. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.

Leaving this tidbit of information out is a bit revisionist, don't you think?

I know of a shop here in NYC that stopped carrying Calfee. The manager told me how the requirements to carry the brand had changed, forcing them to carry stock they could not afford or even need(a recumbent? A bamboo frame?) and their frames all went up $500 in retail price from one day to the next with no explanation. Calfees are nice frames but the innovations coming from them are non-existent. Nothing that would warrant such draconian changes.

The Tetra has never changed in over 20 years and the Dragonfly is a slightly lighter version of the Tetra. Any changes that you CAN make to the frames you are charged extra for(like extra-stiff tubing) on top of the $500 increase to the retail prices.

Calfee missed out on a great opportunity to build a loyal client base here in the northeast. This was before Rue, Crumpton and Parlee were around. Stupid, shortsighted and greedy.

So because of this Calfee will NEVER have a foothold in this area of the country. These are the things that hurt a brand in certain areas, not cheaper prices from a legitimate overseas retailer. That is not a valid argument when some of these importers joyfully shoot themselves in the foot with their marketing and sales tactics.

Maestro is selling Colnagos cheaper than dealers in the US can buy them. The paint quality is not the same but even if it were, it means that US bike shops would rather sell other brands than Colnago. you show a customer a bike they can get for 40% less somewhere else and the client's immediate thought is that they are getting ripped off, even if they would never consider buying a bike from a foreign re-seller.

Maestro is not a foreign re-seller, whatever that means. Your passive-aggressive implication that he is anything but a straight-up honest businessman is quite frankly shredding your credibility. He honors all warranties and is a stand-up guy. Nice try, though.

Nothing Maestro is doing is wrong. no one claims it to be wrong. What Colnago is doing is however, contrary to growth in the US market.

What the US Colnago distributor is doing is what is contrary to growth in the US market. Predatory price points, exorbitant minimum orders and price gouging at the retail level.

As I said before, were I a retail customer I would buy all my Colnagos from Maestro.

Why would you do so if all the frames Maestro sells are poorly resprayed team frames, some used? That doesn't make sense knowing what you supposedly know.:roll::roll:

Case in point-were I able to sell Trek Madones mail-order to Europe I would in the dozens. This wouldn't be wrong, it would be smart business. But if I did, trek would cut me off, so I can't/won't.
jerk

Jerk, as long as the cycling industry engages in this type of predatory capitalism they will always have you by the balls. On the retail side, buying a Colnago from an "authorized dealer" in the US means nothing to me.

If I buy from an authorized US Colnago dealer and anything goes wrong and the damage is covered by the warranty, it will go from the shop, to the distributor, to Italy.

If I buy a frame from Mike it goes straight back to the UK. And the turnaround time will in all likelihood not be any different. Colnago is known for terrible turn-around times on warranty issues anywhay, so what is the difference?

The difference is there are less whores acting as middlemen getting paid for essentially putting a frame in a box and shipping it overseas, which is the extent of the warranty coverage offered by the US distributor.

I can do that myself with the knowledge that I can call Mike directly and speak to him about the progress of the warranty work. Try that with the US distributor. HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

This is where the REAL bone of contention lies, from Maestro's website-

"The very worst aspect of the modern cycle trade, is the infestation by the authorised distributor, and agent, Business execs chasing profit, having no passion for the sport, or the purity of bikes, most of these people have never even sat on a bike in anger, it is just a commodity to sell, this is reflected in the cynical way that they have forced compact bikes onto us, for their own benefit, very few sizes, only a few colours, very easy to stock, cuts costs and makes more money, but fit hardly anyone, just take a long look at them, and the puppet journalists sitting on them who rave about how good they are, RUBBISH!!!"

My sentiments exactly.

[wheelsucker]

I see the shop is Maestro. Is this the same Mike who ran a British-Belgian team in the early 1990s? If so, I think he used to manage a young Leipheimer!

http://www.siteducyclisme.net/ploegfiche.php?id=9374

Yes same shop...anyone got any worries now about where their Colnago comes from? Did not know that - thing is Maestro wouldn't let you know that unless you asked.

[jerk]

No one is slandering maestro bub....just the way in which Ernesto chooses to distribute his product. He will never gain any market share in the US as long as he allows Codagex to continue their practices.

You know this HOW? Do you actually know what type of numbers Maestro does in the US with Colnago frames?

The shop owners I've talked to about this HAVE NEVER mentioned any supposedly "grey market" importing practices as the reason why they don't carry Colnago. They HAVE mentioned crappy price points and the exorbitant minimum number of frames they must keep in stock if they want to carry the brand. Small shops can't compete because they can't afford to.

If the smaller shops received the same price points as R&A, you would see more dealers carrying them. But they are punished for not being able to sell in mass quantities. This is monumentally stupid knowing most shops are small and don't do as much volume. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.

Leaving this tidbit of information out is a bit revisionist, don't you think?

I know of a shop here in NYC that stopped carrying Calfee. The manager told me how the requirements to carry the brand had changed, forcing them to carry stock they could not afford or even need(a recumbent? A bamboo frame?) and their frames all went up $500 in retail price from one day to the next with no explanation. Calfees are nice frames but the innovations coming from them are non-existent. Nothing that would warrant such draconian changes.

The Tetra has never changed in over 20 years and the Dragonfly is a slightly lighter version of the Tetra. Any changes that you CAN make to the frames you are charged extra for(like extra-stiff tubing) on top of the $500 increase to the retail prices.

Calfee missed out on a great opportunity to build a loyal client base here in the northeast. This was before Rue, Crumpton and Parlee were around. Stupid, shortsighted and greedy.

So because of this Calfee will NEVER have a foothold in this area of the country. These are the things that hurt a brand in certain areas, not cheaper prices from a legitimate overseas retailer. That is not a valid argument when some of these importers joyfully shoot themselves in the foot with their marketing and sales tactics.

Maestro is selling Colnagos cheaper than dealers in the US can buy them. The paint quality is not the same but even if it were, it means that US bike shops would rather sell other brands than Colnago. you show a customer a bike they can get for 40% less somewhere else and the client's immediate thought is that they are getting ripped off, even if they would never consider buying a bike from a foreign re-seller.

Maestro is not a foreign re-seller, whatever that means. Your passive-aggressive implication that he is anything but a straight-up honest businessman is quite frankly shredding your credibility. He honors all warranties and is a stand-up guy. Nice try, though.

Nothing Maestro is doing is wrong. no one claims it to be wrong. What Colnago is doing is however, contrary to growth in the US market.

What the US Colnago distributor is doing is what is contrary to growth in the US market. Predatory price points, exorbitant minimum orders and price gouging at the retail level.

As I said before, were I a retail customer I would buy all my Colnagos from Maestro.

Why would you do so if all the frames Maestro sells are poorly resprayed team frames, some used? That doesn't make sense knowing what you supposedly know.:roll::roll:

Case in point-were I able to sell Trek Madones mail-order to Europe I would in the dozens. This wouldn't be wrong, it would be smart business. But if I did, trek would cut me off, so I can't/won't.
jerk

Jerk, as long as the cycling industry engages in this type of predatory capitalism they will always have you by the balls. On the retail side, buying a Colnago from an "authorized dealer" in the US means nothing to me.

If I buy from an authorized US Colnago dealer and anything goes wrong and the damage is covered by the warranty, it will go from the shop, to the distributor, to Italy.

If I buy a frame from Mike it goes straight back to the UK. And the turnaround time will in all likelihood not be any different. Colnago is known for terrible turn-around times on warranty issues anywhay, so what is the difference?

The difference is there are less whores acting as middlemen getting paid for essentially putting a frame in a box and shipping it overseas, which is the extent of the warranty coverage offered by the US distributor.

I can do that myself with the knowledge that I can call Mike directly and speak to him about the progress of the warranty work. Try that with the US distributor. HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

This is where the REAL bone of contention lies, from Maestro's website-

[/i]"The very worst aspect of the modern cycle trade, is the infestation by the authorised distributor, and agent, Business execs chasing profit, having no passion for the sport, or the purity of bikes, most of these people have never even sat on a bike in anger, it is just a commodity to sell, this is reflected in the cynical way that they have forced compact bikes onto us, for their own benefit, very few sizes, only a few colours, very easy to stock, cuts costs and makes more money, but fit hardly anyone, just take a long look at them, and the puppet journalists sitting on them who rave about how good they are, RUBBISH!!!"[i]

My sentiments exactly.

j-nice-

you need to relax and re-read what i wrote. my shop gets the same preferential pricing as r&a and other large colnago retailers....i can't imagine volume discounts having much to do with a shop's decision to carry colnago or not. a 10% differece in pricing is not going to allow a retailer to match or compete with maestro regarding price...there simply isn't enough margin there.

ps "foreign" is not a derogatory term. i urge you to read what i write and not draw inferences that do not exist. maestro is a foreign re-seller for an american consumer. this is not "bad". how do you figure he is not a foreign re-seller when he sells outside the eu?

i'm glad that buying a colnago from an authorized dealer means nothing to you. but buying a bike from a local bike shop does mean alot to the vast majority of consumers. i have no doubt that maestro excels in customer service both before and after the sale, they've been in business a long time and i do not know anyone who has not been happy with their dealings with them. again, this is not personal nor meant as an attack, i am simply stating that as long as colnago continues to allow u.s. consumers to do a quick google search and find a similar bike for 40% beneath what their local shop sells it for, the local shop will in its own best interests not stock or push the brand. you can like this fact, dislike it or whatever...i'm not here to debate any of this....just stating retail reality as i experience it running a $6million brick and mortar bike shop.

anyway-
jerk

[J-Nice]

j-nice-

you need to relax and re-read what i wrote. my shop gets the same preferential pricing as r&a and other large colnago retailers....i can't imagine volume discounts having much to do with a shop's decision to carry colnago or not. a 10% difference in pricing is not going to allow a retailer to match or compete with maestro regarding price...there simply isn't enough margin there.

ps "foreign" is not a derogatory term. i urge you to read what i write and not draw inferences that do not exist. maestro is a foreign re-seller for an american consumer. this is not "bad". how do you figure he is not a foreign re-seller when he sells outside the eu?

Mike is a retailer. Your play on words would make someone who doesn't know or isn't sure think "foreign reseller" means something else, like "grey market", which is another term that has been irresponsibly thrown around about MS Maestro. I mean really, do you go around calling yourself a domestic re-seller?

And I am quite relaxed, thank you very much. Don't insinuate tone when reading an online post. I am not upset, nor am I ranting or raving. You are insinuating that I'm anything but calm to deflect some of the comments that you have made about MS Maestro that are patently false.

You have made some erroneous accusations about the frames that Mike sells that are not based on fact. Like anyone else, I would expect someone to correct me if I was as wrong as you have been about MS Maestro.

i'm glad that buying a colnago from an authorized dealer means nothing to you. but buying a bike from a local bike shop does mean alot to the vast majority of consumers. i have no doubt that maestro excels in customer service both before and after the sale, they've been in business a long time and i do not know anyone who has not been happy with their dealings with them. again, this is not personal nor meant as an attack, i am simply stating that as long as colnago continues to allow u.s. consumers to do a quick google search and find a similar bike for 40% beneath what their local shop sells it for, the local shop will in its own best interests not stock or push the brand. you can like this fact, dislike it or whatever...i'm not here to debate any of this....just stating retail reality as i experience it running a $6million brick and mortar bike shop.

Before sticking your head in the sand ask yourself why someone would rather purchase a frame from overseas or in the case of Crumpton or Rue directly from the person building it. Its' not always just a matter of price.

The retailers that I have purchased high-end frames from were not worth the money and time I put into giving them my business. Not one of these bike shops ever fit me correctly, or addressed my issues after the sale had been made. The customer service certainly was enthusiastic while I was handing over the cash, I must say.

Enough people feel this way that they now exploit internet resources like this site to go to for fitting advice and information on different products.

Would I know about certain fitting devices like the ones used by Serotta, Cyfac or Retul if it wasn't for the internet? Absolutely not. Would I even know what questions to ask as a newbie if it wasn't for the internet? Again, no.

My experience is that the average lbs places very little effort and time into the most important aspect of selling a frame, and that is sizing the customer as best as possible. I have yet to see anyone do anything that I couldn't have done myself. That is not expertise, that is total and complete horseshit.

I can state my case implicitly with real world experience. Go into R&A and watch how the in-house fitting guru goes about fitting someone on a bike.

Then ask yourself if you'd be willing to get such monumentally crappy and wrong advice from a guy who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about while blowing $10 grand of your hard-earned money on a frame and components.

[jerk]

Mike is a retailer. Your play on words would make someone who doesn't know or isn't sure think "foreign reseller" means something else, like "grey market", which is another term that has been irresponsibly thrown around about MS Maestro. I mean really, do you go around calling yourself a domestic re-seller?

he is a foreign re-seller and his frames do not come to the united states through the us distribution channel. this makes his products both grey-market and him a forein re-seller. as the owner of a grey-market bmw (much like a maestro colnago it came to the us, not through the official channels) i don't think either of these terms are bad. you are trying to make my point into a conflict with maestro which it is not.

And I am quite relaxed, thank you very much. Don't insinuate tone when reading an online post. I am not upset, nor am I ranting or raving. You are insinuating that I'm anything but calm to deflect some of the comments that you have made about MS Maestro that are patently false. You have made some erroneous accusations about the frames that Mike sells that are not based on fact. Like anyone else, I would expect someone to correct me if I was as wrong as you have been about MS Maestro.

i have made no false comments in my post. i am glad to hear you are not upset, nor ranting and raving. please do not try to create a motive which does not exist. i am sorry you have had bad experiences at bike shops.


Before sticking your head in the sand ask yourself why someone would rather purchase a frame from overseas or in the case of Crumpton or Rue directly from the person building it. Its' not always just a matter of price.

my head is not in the sand. i am well aware of the variety of reasons one would seek to work with a frame builder and purchase from overseas. i have personally done both. this does not change the realities of bicycle retail in the united states and the fact that the vast majority of high-end bicycles are sold through brick and mortar bike shops. again, it is not good, or bad...it just is the economic reality. you and i are enthusiasts who seek out knowledge through a myriad of channels....we post on forums, we (probably i assume) both have numerous bicycles we've bought from builders, shops, other enthusiasts etc. the vast majority of cyclists do not pursue their equipment in this way. they buy it from bike shops and do their research through bicycling magazine, google searches and speaking with friends and family who also participate in the sport.

The retailers that I have purchased high-end frames from were not worth the money and time I put into giving them my business. Not one of these bike shops ever fit me correctly, or addressed my issues after the sale had been made. The customer service certainly was enthusiastic while I was handing over the cash, I must say.

i am sorry to hear that. that does not speak well of the shops you have frequented although i certainly do not know all the details.

Enough people feel this way that they now exploit internet resources like this site to go to for fitting advice and information on different products.

some do. many and most do not.

Would I know about certain fitting devices like the ones used by Serotta, Cyfac or Retul if it wasn't for the internet? Absolutely not. Would I even know what questions to ask as a newbie if it wasn't for the internet? Again, no.

probably not. but we can agree to disagree here. i think a good local bike shop is a great place for a newbie to learn what questions to ask and really get into the sport.

My experience is that the average lbs places very little effort and time into the most important aspect of selling a frame, and that is sizing the customer as best as possible. I have yet to see anyone do anything that I couldn't have done myself. That is not expertise, that is total and complete horseshit.


this, much like your comments on calfee are an entirely different topic. my feelings on bike fit are almost identical (ironic to you i am sure, completely logical to me) to those that mike at maestro shares. i would urge you and every cyclist to be wary of smoke in mirrors when it comes to bike fit. the best any static system can hope to achieve is a good starting point based on sound biomechanics and bike geometry that can be verified out on the road. i for one, would trust the coni manual to provide a better fit than the vast majority of so called "fitters". in the end, you do need to "do it yourself" j-nice because even the best bike fit needs to be verified out on the road and it is always first what the athlete feels, second what the coach or fitter sees and third what the science says.

I can state my case implicitly with real world experience. Go into R&A and watch how the in-house fitting guru goes about fitting someone on a bike.

Then ask yourself if you'd be willing to get such monumentally crappy and wrong advice from a guy who, though is a very nice, doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. All the while blowing 10 grand of your hard-earned money on a frame and components.

i like phil and the guys at r and a, but that being said, i really don't trust anyone when it comes to bike fit other than myself. sorry!

jerk

[CharlesM]

FWIW,

Jerk's not really said anything about Maestro as relates to cost versus retail regarding US retailers that isn't true.


I watched Trailtir struggle with Colnago and Veltec have a better deal, but it's simply not good enough compared to what Maestro gets.


Nobody is ripping anyone off. The cost of importing the frames, storing and reselling them here is FAR more than what Maestro get.




The trade off is simply that you can depend on the domestic distributor to take care of issues better and cheaper than Maestro can.


That doesn't make em bad guys, it's simply a condition of the sale, just like the potential large customs charges...


As for mistrepresenting the frames and paint, I have personally seen shoddy paint come grey market. I've not seen that with Veltec / Trialtir with a single exception and it was immediately swapped out.


I don't think Jerk's being a Jerk... He said if he was a consumer he would buy from Maestro... The rest isn't really food for arguement IMO...


Appologies but I've said everything I said in this thread in past posts... I'm not thinking anyone out of line and understand your points as well J

[coloclimber]

Play Nice J-Nice


This is some good sh!t.

When weighing my options for a recent Colnago purchase, I ultimately chose a lightly used frame from a highly reliable source that I have dealt with in the past and thus trust. I spoke with the owner and dealer beforehand. There were no surprises. Paying the extra tariff for a new frame from a local shop or some US online dealer, or even one from Maestro, just didnt factor into the equation since I found the right size, the right paint and the right model.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned about Colnago distribution/sales in the US is that there is a huge spread in frame options, thus a very large inventory requirement for the Colnago distributor (history says a small Colnago inventory = upset dealers and customers who cant readily find their size and color). With over 20 different sizes offered and tons of paint jobs and three similar models (C50, EP EC) the moons have to line up for Maestro or any US dealer to have what a customer wants at any given time. I would guess that most US buyers want it now once they decide to buy a high end bike.