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 Post subject: drivetrain compatibility
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:21 pm 
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With Shimano going ten speed is there any cross compatibility with Campy now.

I know pretty much all the shimano ten speed stuff is compatible with the old 9 speed (excluding shifters and cassettes)

Interested to know


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 Post subject: drivetrain compatibility
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:21 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:01 pm 
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nzkiwiguy wrote:
With Shimano going ten speed is there any cross compatibility with Campy now.

I know pretty much all the shimano ten speed stuff is compatible with the old 9 speed (excluding shifters and cassettes)

Interested to know


As I understand it, they aren't compatible. The Shimano 10-speed rear cogs are closer together then the Campy 10-speed, therefore the shifting doesn't sync up.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:36 pm 
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But that should be an issue of the indexing system at the shifter and the set screw adjustments on the derailuers. I think a campy cassette body is .7mm wider than a shimano.

If you had shimano cassette, rings, chain and indexed shifters and changed the pully wheels on the rear-d why could you not run campy derailuers

I just wonder if it viable or if the non-compatibility is market protection, like Shimano says with their 9 and 10 speeds are not compatible but are in many respects


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:04 pm 
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I know the front rings and derailleur don't matter. I'd examine further (if I were you) before putting a campy rear derailleur on that setup. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) it's not just the sti shifter cable increments that differ from campy but also the derailleur bolt/pivot geometry that effects it. I know there's a "shimagnolo" kit for the 9-speed but it may not yet be out for the 10-speed. It's still relatively new.

I've asked a friend in the know and am hoping for an answer .. let you know if I hear differently. I'm interested in the answer for this also.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:15 pm 
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nzkiwiguy wrote:

If you had shimano cassette, rings, chain and indexed shifters and changed the pully wheels on the rear-d why could you not run campy derailuers



It seems you must have an adapter to make that combination work. You can't just slap a campy rear derailleur on a shimano 10 cassette and set the high and low stops, unfortunately. If you think about it, the high and low stops are exactly that - they only limit the farthest points the derailleur goes. The incremental shifts don't change irregardless of those stop settings, and using STI 10-speed shifters wont be a remedy.

The guy that makes "shimagnolo" (Veloparts) adapters has not yet made one that will work for the new 10-speed. I emailed him and it seems he has no interest in making one either. Another shop that does it: http://wheelsmfg.com/ is working on a conversion as we speek. I emailed him and he said it is in testing now. Maybe you can try them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:22 pm 
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bobalou wrote:
I know the front rings and derailleur don't matter.


So the chain doesnt matter too ? For example if you you have a full shim setup (9speed in my case) and you swap that shim chain for a campy 9 speed it shouldnt give any problem. Correct ?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:30 pm 
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Thanks for the info but I am not sold! The rear D is a spring. The position of that spring is set by the index. All other variables are the same (position on bike by Hanger, position to axle etc). I will play with a campy d when I am setting up new bike in a few weeks. Will let you know.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:40 pm 
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I don't get why you guys mix systems. It doesn't look right, and it doesn't work right either. All this fuss to save a few grams and hamper the shifting performance is pretty stupid.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:33 pm 
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nzkiwiguy wrote:
Thanks for the info but I am not sold! The rear D is a spring. The position of that spring is set by the index. All other variables are the same (position on bike by Hanger, position to axle etc). I will play with a campy d when I am setting up new bike in a few weeks. Will let you know.


I'll be interested in hearing how it goes for you ..hope it works for you nz. :)

I will tell you that one variable you aren't considering that is important is the derailleur action itself. The pivot of the two drailleurs are different, therefore the derailleurs will move a slightly different distance, given identical amount of cable pulls. It's a trigonometry thing!

Here's veloparts email: <VeloPartsInc@hotmail.com>
Here's what he said:

veloparts wrote:
If you want to go to the effort of making the proper adapter you can get just about any combination imaginable to work. I make an adapter for Ergo shifters and Shimano drivetrain, just because I use that combo on my own bikes. There is not enough demand for other variations to justify their development.
Roy


Here's what wheelsmfg said to me:

wheelsmfg wrote:
Still working on it. Will have more solid answers in a month or two. I have been able to get everything to work, just not sure if I really like the way they work and am waiting for a little warmer weather to test ride the things.

Dave


I personally am not interested (at this time) in mixing systems, at least rear derailleurs and/or shifters. I think Superlite has a good point about that. I'm just interested in if it can work and if it's an option in any future builds I might do. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:47 pm 
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Ivan wrote:
bobalou wrote:
I know the front rings and derailleur don't matter.


So the chain doesnt matter too ? For example if you you have a full shim setup (9speed in my case) and you swap that shim chain for a campy 9 speed it shouldnt give any problem. Correct ?


I think that you can use a 9-speed chain on a 10-speed system (campy at least) with no problems. Not sure about DA though. Going the other way, 10-speed chain with a 9-speed system would give a problem (with the rear cassette, not the chainrings). Mixing 9-speed chains between both (shimano or campy) systems is no problem.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:16 pm 
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bobalou wrote:
Mixing 9-speed chains between both (shimano or campy) systems is no problem.


hmm thanks :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:21 am 
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I can understand a rider mixing systems if they wanted the Campag Cranks and Shimano shifters, but I'm not sure if the DA shifters would be correct using a Campag RD and DA Cassette.

Brian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:58 am 
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Quote:
I don't get why you guys mix systems. It doesn't look right, and it doesn't work right either. All this fuss to save a few grams and hamper the shifting performance is pretty stupid.


Superlite - Chill Man!! It's not that I want to mix drivetrain parts. I just want to know if you can! and if not why not. So much of what we are told by bike companies is for their profit. Get us to upgrade etc. I am just curious.

I am a Shimano guy - love the new 7800 crank, but I run 9 speed on the rear. No problems what so ever. All with 7800 derailuers using 9 speed shifters and a Sram 9-speed chain.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:07 am 
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Dude, you chill. :roll: I just stated the truth. Nothing more. I'm not condeming anyone who does this, just saying I don't agree with it.

The combonation your running isn't really a compatibility issue, they work together. Only the obvious wouldn't, i.e a 9 speed shifter with a 10 speed cassette, and vise versa. Also the front deraileur wouldn't work as good due to a narrower cage for the narrower chain. Chainring thickness and spacing is the same on 9 and 10 speed cranks.

If you just want to know the facts do a search on the site. This subject has been questioned to death.

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 Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:07 am 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:18 am 
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No Problems with the front D yet with the sram chain. Only about 500 miles on it though.


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