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 Post subject: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:36 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 1337
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Aside from the Genesis equilibrium disc which is heavy steel (I don't mind light steel) what road disc frame set are about.

If I can't find one I like I will either have to go for the genesis or get a custom frame made.

Help!

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 Post subject: road disc frame sets
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:36 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
There's the HongFu FM-166 and FM-079 carbon frames.
The 166 is the disc version of the Fm-066.


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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Posts: 811
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
bm0p700f wrote:
Aside from the Genesis equilibrium disc which is heavy steel (I don't mind light steel) what road disc frame set are about.


Whether steel, aluminium or carbon, road frames for discs are beefed up and consequently weigh more than their non-disc counterparts. Add to that the weight of calipers and rotors and you can see why it is only the people who don't know much about bikes that actually use road bikes with disc brakes.


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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:09 pm
Posts: 2465
I did a google search and came back dozens of options.

https://www.google.com/search?q=disc+brake+road+bike&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=-ADJUp7yO-jb0QX4wYHQAw&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=641

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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:09 pm
Posts: 2465
Valbrona wrote:

... you can see why it is only the people who don't know much about bikes that actually use road bikes with disc brakes.


That is an incredibly ignorant statement to make. Not everyone is a weight weenie or participating in UCI events. I know more about bikes than many people on this forum and more than most recreational cyclists and racers, but I loved the disc brake road bike I began riding back in 2008. Rim brakes are adequate but, with refinement, road discs are every bit as good and significantly better in certain conditions. Would I choose them for a hillclimb? No. But I typically remove one brake caliper altogether because brakes are virtually unnecessary. Would I choose discs for an alpine tour or Gran Fondo? Hell yeah! My experience with disc brakes in mountainous terrain was that my braking was only limited by my tires.

Disc brakes are coming. Once the UCI allows them in the peloton there will be a shift in attitude. When is the last time you saw a mountain biker on cantilever brakes? Naysayers insisted cantilevers were the best answer until v-brakes replaced them... only to be replaced by discs a short while later.

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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:03 am 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
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xnavalav8r wrote:
My experience with disc brakes in mountainous terrain was that my braking was only limited by my tires.
You mean exactly like riding mountainous terrain on decent rim brakes?

And yes, disc are coming, and I daresay my next bike has fairly good odds of coming with them fitted, but for most road riding, it's still a solution looking for a problem. (For commuting and bad weather training bikes, they would be ideal.)


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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:39 pm
Posts: 974
Location: Essex / Lincs UK
Disc brakes are coming in the same way as STI and compact frames, to stay I reckon, another bike 'fashion' which will become commonplace. You may as well embrace it.


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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:53 am 
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mattr wrote:
You mean exactly like riding mountainous terrain on decent rim brakes?



No. Not at all. In rain and freezing conditions, which I rode quite frequently, rim brakes became virtually useless. They barely slowed the rotation of the rim. And on really hairy descents, under heavy braking, it was not uncommon for me to go through a set of rim brake pads in a single day.

Disc brakes, on the other hand, offered consistent braking in all conditions. The pads never melted. I had the same confidence in my brakes whether wet or dry, cold or hot.

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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:56 am 
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Stevens Ventoux


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:50 am 
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.


Last edited by Causidicus on Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:10 pm 
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When the sponsors pay for the pros to ride them, the pros will ride them. Your argument about neutral support was the same argument made with the switch from 9-to-10-to-11 speed shifting. So far, an invalid point. And any suggestion that rim brakes are adequate and therefore will remain the standard is also invalid. Cantilevers are adequate, but you don't see them on road racing bikes anymore. Cyclocrossers will be shedding them next.

Case in point: Sven Nys, arguably the createst CX racer of all time, tried discs in November and said they were great but too heavy. In January, Nys is racing on disc brakes. Why? Because they perform better. Because weight savings can be achieved through a well-engineered frame. Because his sponsors want him to (and pay him to).

November:
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/nys-tests-disc-brakes-in-hamme-zogge-38967/#null

"The difference is massive. With disc brakes you are braking, instead of slowing down," Nys said.

"The difference [in weight] is about two bottles of water, and it's not all in the brakes," Nys said. "It's an adapted frame which is strengthened. It's too much. Too much to run up a climb with that bike on your back."

January:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
If January's race was the one in Rome, it was very flat. The "run up" had maybe 2 meters elevation gain and the rest of the course was dead flat. And it was very muddy.

I don't think he'll run discs on a hilly course that's not sloppy wet. Two full bottles' weight is noticeable.

Looks like 140mm discs front and rear.


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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:36 am
Posts: 20
It is comedy that some people debate this technology still.
You may as well say rim brakes should be the standard for mtbs.

Motorcycles have floating rotors to factor in wheel swaps so this is coming to all premium road bicycles.
Weights will come down just like everything else in cycling.
Manufacturers always want to sell new technology.
You don't have to buy a road disc bike if you don't want to.
The majority of bikes sold are not racing under UCI rules.
The average consumer that has never even owned a bike before will buy a disc bike over an identical rim bike after 1 test ride because its so obvious which is better.


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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:38 pm 
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Posts: 1295
Then there's that quiet elephant in the room of this thread... "AERO". My god, have we already forgotten how important being aero is? I can just hear some manufacturers sitting in their think tanks going "Geez Louise, why did we have to make such a big deal about aero... cuz discs are where it's at now. And we can't very well start saying aero doesn't matter, can we?... hmmm... sure we can, we'll just wait a while, keep quiet, then when aero becomes passé we'll tout the virtues of disc brakes on the road, cuz they sure ain't aero."

Basically, it's hard to argue aero in the same breath as touting disc brakes on the road. It cracks me up the lengths manufacturers will go to in order to claim aero, like hiding 4mm cables in the tubes, etc. That's fine if they want to do that, but it's tough to then reconcile an eggbeater of a disk in the air right out front churning up a whole pile of dirtiness. Shhhhh.... we said not to mention that. Lol.

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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:38 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: road disc frame sets
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:47 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Just to be a techno-dweeb motorcyclist, the floating rotors aren't for wheel swaps. They're to 1). prevent the large diameter discs from warping and 2) so the calipers can be solidly mounted to the forks yet account for different pad wear on the two sides. The amount of lateral float is pretty small.

In motorcycle road racing wheel changes are rare so there's usually no special provisions for doing them quickly. Wheel changes are done in endurance racing but there's not much needed for the brakes other than beveling the pads to make it easier to slip the wheel in, and using calipers which allow quick pad changes (both of those technolgies are on some MTB discs). The trick stuff is how the wheel is held in the fork (and rear swing arm) to allow fast wheel changes.

In any case each team (1 or 2 bikes) has its own wheels that fit only their bikes.

The problem with disc wheel changes on bicycles is that the disc spacing is different between forks (and proabably hubs). So a wheel off the neutral wheel car may rub the disc on the caliper or not brake well. ()also true if they're different diamater discs) This is only a problem for pros or the lucky few amateurs who have true neutral support in races. The races I've done have all bar one had either no support at all or a wheels in/wheels out policy, so it would not affect me. You'd expect that a pro team using discs would all set their brakes up with the same disc spacing so wheels off the team cars would work on the team bikes.

BTW you can use disc brakes in most USAC road races now. They're not illegal as we don't follow UCI technical regulations except for some championship races.


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