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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:11 pm 
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Posts: 2527
Owning a chain wear tool is the problem. Almost none of them works properly. They measure over a short distance and add the wear of a roller at each end to the elongation that they are trying to measure. That can make the reported elongation up to twice the actual amount. Some brands will measure .25% worn or more, when new, just because roller diameters and IDs vary between brands. Some folks don't read the instructions and take a reading on the chain when new, so that amount of "wear" can be ignored.

Wear patterns are also different between the brands. Shimano chains elongate much faster than Campy chains, an will expire due to elongation, while a Campy chain with equal mileage will show hardly any elongation. Unfortunately Campy rollers and side plates still wear out, so you can't reliably use a precision scale and base your decision on when to change based on increased length.

People constantly whine if they need to lube a chain at less the 2-300 mile or weekly intervals and then whine some more when their chain is worn out after 2,000 miles. I relube mine every other ride at the minimum, since it only take about 2 minutes.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:34 pm 
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Location: Herndon, VA
I measure 12 links with a ruler. I also lube/clean after every ride. Lube is cheaper than a chain.


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Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:34 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:35 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Canada
I'd say 9-10 was the start of the gimmick.
Keeping in mind that above 8 triples essentially faded out, which was an important step, but we'll need at least 16-18 speed before running a single front chain ring.

Chain wear tools tell you what you need to know with reasonable accuracy, I toss above 75% and can never tell any difference.

With a Tornado-type chain cleaner, fully cleaning and then re-lubing a chain is a 45-60 second endeavor, and ranks right up there with pumping tires to the right pressure.

I wish group makers would read feedback, for years people have been requesting the ability to customize their shifters with stiffer/looser springs, different ergonomic hoods (not just color), different brake reach, and what do we get? 11 speeds. Hardly on the top of most people's list on what would make a better shifter.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:42 pm 
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It is the toothbrush company again!

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:44 pm 
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Location: Natovi Landing
wouldn't the chain line mean that a single front ring with wide cassette will never be more efficient than a double with a smaller cassette at the back?

would be quite WW probably though ... i guess you'd save on the front shifter, derailleur, cable and chainring, but put a bit back on with the jumbo cassette.

i don't feel any need for 11 speed but i like the idea of having a ceramic option on record as long as the bearings are good (which being campy i'd expect). it does mean an actualy improvement in performance even if only slight.

i agree that SRAM should be worried.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:54 pm 
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SRAM just needs to hit a lower price point.
In the absence of anything better, just make it cheaper -this worked for Dura Ace.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:54 pm 
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What's the reason for it. Super Record....

Well..... since a long long time all manufacturers have had a top of the line bike. The mega-expensive super lightweight one. The one that is so over the top and super expensive that they barely sell any of them. Sometimes they exist only in photoshop :shock: . This bike has been equipped for the last decade with Record. The lightest and most exclusive. The flagship of all manufacturers used a Record group. DA was always there, and outsold Record many times over on the bikes they sold (and Ultegra in turn outsold that). Then Red came, and Record was an orphan. All the flagship models which rely on two things (price and weight figures) switched to Red, because it was the lightest and most expensive (aftermarket at least). SRAM offered the manufacturers great deals for OEM Red groups, so for the manufacturers it was win win.

Campagnolo needs Super Record to retake the crown. That is why one more sprocket too. The numbers count.

Shimano are also feeling the threat. SRAM has awesome distribution, unlike Campy, so availablity isn't an issue. It has the required carbon, the weight, and the wow factor.

Interesting times people!

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:55 pm 
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I think that you benefit more by using 11 speed than by using ceramic bearings :D


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:57 pm 
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11 Speed Chorus will be supposed to be the equal competiotor to DA. Record will be more expensive than Chorus. Super Record will be more expensive than Record.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:58 pm 
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RTW wrote:


Exactly. Bike parts have become like Shampoo. Read a shampoo ad, replace "radiance and split ends" with "stiffness and vertical compliance".

I like the idea of blue chain links that tell you when to change your chain. My new shifter could certainly use a tongue cleaner.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:10 pm 
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Would nobody else like to have more cog combinations? (21-23-25-27 instead 21-24-27, etc)


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:26 pm 
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Location: derby, England
For anyone not 'racing' - do you really need 10 speed ? I think not.

I can't see the point of 11 speed (or 10 speed for that matter).

Who wants to start a boycott of Campag ? Me for one !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:33 pm 
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Location: derby, England
If you buy an IRD 10 speed cassette you do get 21-23-25-28 !


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:58 pm 
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Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Tristan wrote:
Keep in mind that if 11 cogs are crammed into the space of the existing 10 then shift quality may improve as the chain has less distance to travel!

Since current Campag 10 cogs are similar thickness to Shimano 9 maybe there is room to narrow them to similar width to Shimano 10...durability should be no better or worse than Shimano 10 if the cogs are similar thickness.


couldn´t also lead to the oposite? or can it lead to a weaker chain


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Location: New Zero Kanada 43° 40' 0" N, 79° 25' 0" W
This is boring.
Adding another cog in the back and expensive bearings isn't innovation. It's simply polishing your existing product to make it slightly more appealing and nudge people into the upgrade cycle. It's like sticking a clock in a radio.

The expanded number of cogs in the back has offered diminishing returns in recent decades. I like my 10s stuff just fine b/c it shifts well and is strong. Adding an 11th in the back just makes me assume Campy can't think of anything new.


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Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:20 pm 


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