Campy 11 Speed -- Confirmation

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Wingnut
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by Wingnut

Phill P wrote:Anyone ever tried ceramic chains and ceramic toothed cassttes? Would help durability and be lighter than steel. If strong enough could go narrower spacing and more gears again!!


Lets face it, at the ultra high end, sponsored pro level, the riders don't care about durability (as long as it performs to the end of the day). These guys don't pay for this stuff either. We consumers then salavate over it and it builds brand image.

Maybe only super record will ever have 11 speed, and maybe it will only be avaliable in very limited volumes outside of sponsored riders.


Fair point.

I don't mind that my Campy 10spd shifters are going to look out of date next year, I'm just grumpy that I'll eventually have to upgrade to 11spd at some stage as history shows it will trickle down through the lower groupsets pretty quickly. :wink:
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DIRT BOY
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by DIRT BOY

Phill P wrote:A
Maybe only super record will ever have 11 speed, and maybe it will only be avaliable in very limited volumes outside of sponsored riders.

No, confirmed Super Record, Record and Chorus will ALL be 11 speed only.
DIRT BOY

by Weenie


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Wingnut
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by Wingnut

DIRT BOY wrote:
Phill P wrote:A
Maybe only super record will ever have 11 speed, and maybe it will only be avaliable in very limited volumes outside of sponsored riders.

No, confirmed Super Record, Record and Chorus will ALL be 11 speed only.


So will Record end up in the bin like Croce D'Aune did?

Wasn't Chorus meant to be the equal level competitor of Dura-Ace?

Or will Chorus push Centaur in the bin?
"It's not the destination...it's the ride!"

ParisCarbon
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by ParisCarbon

Well the confirmation of 11 speed would explain the announcment in April about Record Pro Tour Red shifter being available to the public... There sure seems to be more than 600 out there!! I got em, love the positive snap to em...

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micky
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by micky

Wingnut wrote:
So will Record end up in the bin like Croce D'Aune did?

Wasn't Chorus meant to be the equal level competitor of Dura-Ace?

Or will Chorus push Centaur in the bin?


The difference between SuperRecord and Record is that the first one would have ceramic bearing.
That's what it has been said in other topics.

Tristan
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by Tristan

Keep in mind that if 11 cogs are crammed into the space of the existing 10 then shift quality may improve as the chain has less distance to travel!

Since current Campag 10 cogs are similar thickness to Shimano 9 maybe there is room to narrow them to similar width to Shimano 10...durability should be no better or worse than Shimano 10 if the cogs are similar thickness.
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Tristan
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by Tristan

Any idea if the new 11 speed ratchet rings will be compatible with the existing Ergopowers?
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NS
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by NS

The Red edition shifter to me smack of the "special edition" promotions that the motor industry do at the end of model lines.

I can picture the conversation now.

What we going to do with all these bloody record ergo levers
Tighten that screw up and tell everyone its a pro edition
They arent going to fall for that
Yes they will, pass me that red felt tip pen
We'll tell them its a limited edition of 600
Yes great no-one is going to count are they :roll:

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Danton
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by Danton

:lol: NS

11 speed isn't for me. I think it could be good if you ride lots in the mountains but even where I live is hilly but I am not missing gears with 10 speed.

Technically if it can be made to work, with good shifting and no weight penalty, it is good and we'll all be using it in a few years time.

But is more always better? The marginal benefit of each gear diminishes. It does remind me of this:
Image

Tristan
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by Tristan

Danton wrote:But is more always better? The marginal benefit of each gear diminishes. It does remind me of this:


http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33930 :lol:
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anubis
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by anubis

I'm looking forward joyfully to buy 11-speed Record. Cause my gear's not an automotive, its my legs, and they have rather narrow window of effective speed of rotation.

Briscoelab
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by Briscoelab

My main concern is the availability of quality 10 speed cassettes in the future. I will surely start migrating bikes to 11 speed, when it comes out. But, between my wife and I, we have 4 cross bikes and 4 road bikes all setup with Campy 10 speed. That's way too many to upgrade at once.

Campy is good about keeping some cassettes available. But it seems that they often start reducing the gear options. I know the lower groups will still be offered in 10 speed, but who wants to be racing on Veloce cassettes ;)

I would love to put 11 speed on my CX bike. But, then I have to switch at least two bikes so the wheels can be quickly switched around between the two. So it seems I'd put it on my road bike first. (Where I arguably don't need the extra gear in the first place! :) )

DaveS
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by DaveS

11 speed is supposed to be available in Super Record, Record and Chorus, so it won't be some limited avialabilty item for long.

Of course durability will suffer at least to some extent. As a chain gets narrower and the pin/bushing contact are is reduced, the rate of wear increases. Thinner rollers will also wear more quickly.

Thinner cogs, like those in used by Shimano, since 2004 should also wear more quickly. Shimano applied more wear resistant coatings to help combat that problem.

The only chain I know of that has used a wear resistant coating is KMC, on their top of the line chain, but I've never owned one to disassemble to see if the coating covers the critical wear areas.

Reduced chain and cog life might finally get a more people interested in intellegent chain management and accurate wear measurement. As is it stands now, very few people have a clue about how to measure chain wear and get the most life from their chains and cassettes. The most common comment I get on this topic is that chains are cheap, so I toss them every 2,000 miles or less. Cassette life seems to be a little more concerning for some, but there again, most people don't know the trick to extending cog life (alternating the use of several chains).

Even with super narrow 11 speed cogs and chains, there should be no problem getting 4,000 miles from a chain and 12,000 from a cassette.

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DocRay
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by DocRay

DaveS wrote: As is it stands now, very few people have a clue about how to measure chain wear and get the most life from their chains and cassettes. The most common comment I get on this topic is that chains are cheap, so I toss them every 2,000 miles or less. Cassette life seems to be a little more concerning for some, but there again, most people don't know the trick to extending cog life (alternating the use of several chains).


So "most people" don't own a chain wear tool? I doubt that.

This reads from the perspective of a clear Shimanist, but Campy chain users get easily 5,000 miles from a UT chain without trying too hard. Shimano chains, you get what you pay for.
I don't think it takes an engineering degree to understand that cleaning and lubing a chain frequently substantially increases its life.

As for reliability, Campy does not have a track record of releasing parts prematurely, they work from day one. If this were SRAM or FSA, I'd be very worried.

We're only talking about a 10% difference in sizes, it's likely that manufacturing techniques have advanced far enough to make these parts affordable and just as reliable.

But 11 speeds? It's kinda sad that the group makers have basically resorted to gimmicks.
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HammerTime2
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by HammerTime2

Which was the first increase in the number of speeds to constitute a gimmick? 4 to 5, 5 to 6, 6 to 7, 7 to 8, 8 to 9, 9 to 10, 10 to 11, or is it yet to come? Or was Campagnolo's first derailleur not requiring you to get off the bike to turn around the wheel to switch between 2 gears (total) a gimmick?

by Weenie


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