HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 267 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 18  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:41 am
Posts: 1264
Phill P wrote:
Anyone ever tried ceramic chains and ceramic toothed cassttes? Would help durability and be lighter than steel. If strong enough could go narrower spacing and more gears again!!


Lets face it, at the ultra high end, sponsored pro level, the riders don't care about durability (as long as it performs to the end of the day). These guys don't pay for this stuff either. We consumers then salavate over it and it builds brand image.

Maybe only super record will ever have 11 speed, and maybe it will only be avaliable in very limited volumes outside of sponsored riders.


Fair point.

I don't mind that my Campy 10spd shifters are going to look out of date next year, I'm just grumpy that I'll eventually have to upgrade to 11spd at some stage as history shows it will trickle down through the lower groupsets pretty quickly. :wink:

_________________
"It never gets easier, you just go faster..." - Greg Lemond

"I enjoy climbing...I enjoy seeing people disappear behind me." - Robert Millar


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:12 am 


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:05 am
Posts: 327
Location: Florida, USA
Phill P wrote:
A
Maybe only super record will ever have 11 speed, and maybe it will only be avaliable in very limited volumes outside of sponsored riders.

No, confirmed Super Record, Record and Chorus will ALL be 11 speed only.

_________________
DIRT BOY


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:41 am
Posts: 1264
DIRT BOY wrote:
Phill P wrote:
A
Maybe only super record will ever have 11 speed, and maybe it will only be avaliable in very limited volumes outside of sponsored riders.

No, confirmed Super Record, Record and Chorus will ALL be 11 speed only.


So will Record end up in the bin like Croce D'Aune did?

Wasn't Chorus meant to be the equal level competitor of Dura-Ace?

Or will Chorus push Centaur in the bin?

_________________
"It never gets easier, you just go faster..." - Greg Lemond

"I enjoy climbing...I enjoy seeing people disappear behind me." - Robert Millar


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Posts: 657
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Well the confirmation of 11 speed would explain the announcment in April about Record Pro Tour Red shifter being available to the public... There sure seems to be more than 600 out there!! I got em, love the positive snap to em...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:27 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:57 pm
Posts: 3661
Location: Vicenza
Wingnut wrote:

So will Record end up in the bin like Croce D'Aune did?

Wasn't Chorus meant to be the equal level competitor of Dura-Ace?

Or will Chorus push Centaur in the bin?


The difference between SuperRecord and Record is that the first one would have ceramic bearing.
That's what it has been said in other topics.

_________________
ciclismo-espresso.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:57 am
Posts: 1048
Location: New Zealand
Keep in mind that if 11 cogs are crammed into the space of the existing 10 then shift quality may improve as the chain has less distance to travel!

Since current Campag 10 cogs are similar thickness to Shimano 9 maybe there is room to narrow them to similar width to Shimano 10...durability should be no better or worse than Shimano 10 if the cogs are similar thickness.

_________________
Wheelworks.co.nz
New Zealand handbuilt wheels


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:57 am
Posts: 1048
Location: New Zealand
Any idea if the new 11 speed ratchet rings will be compatible with the existing Ergopowers?

_________________
Wheelworks.co.nz
New Zealand handbuilt wheels


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:27 pm
Posts: 2506
Location: Manchester, UK
The Red edition shifter to me smack of the "special edition" promotions that the motor industry do at the end of model lines.

I can picture the conversation now.

What we going to do with all these bloody record ergo levers
Tighten that screw up and tell everyone its a pro edition
They arent going to fall for that
Yes they will, pass me that red felt tip pen
We'll tell them its a limited edition of 600
Yes great no-one is going to count are they :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:52 pm
Posts: 2327
Location: The Alps
:lol: NS

11 speed isn't for me. I think it could be good if you ride lots in the mountains but even where I live is hilly but I am not missing gears with 10 speed.

Technically if it can be made to work, with good shifting and no weight penalty, it is good and we'll all be using it in a few years time.

But is more always better? The marginal benefit of each gear diminishes. It does remind me of this:
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:57 am
Posts: 1048
Location: New Zealand
Danton wrote:
But is more always better? The marginal benefit of each gear diminishes. It does remind me of this:


http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33930 :lol:

_________________
Wheelworks.co.nz
New Zealand handbuilt wheels


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:44 am
Posts: 381
I'm looking forward joyfully to buy 11-speed Record. Cause my gear's not an automotive, its my legs, and they have rather narrow window of effective speed of rotation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 1513
My main concern is the availability of quality 10 speed cassettes in the future. I will surely start migrating bikes to 11 speed, when it comes out. But, between my wife and I, we have 4 cross bikes and 4 road bikes all setup with Campy 10 speed. That's way too many to upgrade at once.

Campy is good about keeping some cassettes available. But it seems that they often start reducing the gear options. I know the lower groups will still be offered in 10 speed, but who wants to be racing on Veloce cassettes ;)

I would love to put 11 speed on my CX bike. But, then I have to switch at least two bikes so the wheels can be quickly switched around between the two. So it seems I'd put it on my road bike first. (Where I arguably don't need the extra gear in the first place! :) )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Posts: 2527
11 speed is supposed to be available in Super Record, Record and Chorus, so it won't be some limited avialabilty item for long.

Of course durability will suffer at least to some extent. As a chain gets narrower and the pin/bushing contact are is reduced, the rate of wear increases. Thinner rollers will also wear more quickly.

Thinner cogs, like those in used by Shimano, since 2004 should also wear more quickly. Shimano applied more wear resistant coatings to help combat that problem.

The only chain I know of that has used a wear resistant coating is KMC, on their top of the line chain, but I've never owned one to disassemble to see if the coating covers the critical wear areas.

Reduced chain and cog life might finally get a more people interested in intellegent chain management and accurate wear measurement. As is it stands now, very few people have a clue about how to measure chain wear and get the most life from their chains and cassettes. The most common comment I get on this topic is that chains are cheap, so I toss them every 2,000 miles or less. Cassette life seems to be a little more concerning for some, but there again, most people don't know the trick to extending cog life (alternating the use of several chains).

Even with super narrow 11 speed cogs and chains, there should be no problem getting 4,000 miles from a chain and 12,000 from a cassette.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:40 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:33 am
Posts: 3468
Location: Hamilton, Canada
DaveS wrote:
As is it stands now, very few people have a clue about how to measure chain wear and get the most life from their chains and cassettes. The most common comment I get on this topic is that chains are cheap, so I toss them every 2,000 miles or less. Cassette life seems to be a little more concerning for some, but there again, most people don't know the trick to extending cog life (alternating the use of several chains).


So "most people" don't own a chain wear tool? I doubt that.

This reads from the perspective of a clear Shimanist, but Campy chain users get easily 5,000 miles from a UT chain without trying too hard. Shimano chains, you get what you pay for.
I don't think it takes an engineering degree to understand that cleaning and lubing a chain frequently substantially increases its life.

As for reliability, Campy does not have a track record of releasing parts prematurely, they work from day one. If this were SRAM or FSA, I'd be very worried.

We're only talking about a 10% difference in sizes, it's likely that manufacturing techniques have advanced far enough to make these parts affordable and just as reliable.

But 11 speeds? It's kinda sad that the group makers have basically resorted to gimmicks.

_________________
Google: Results 1 - 20 of about 88,500 English pages for _doping_, _cycling_ and _denies_. (0.33 seconds)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:40 pm 


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5066
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
Which was the first increase in the number of speeds to constitute a gimmick? 4 to 5, 5 to 6, 6 to 7, 7 to 8, 8 to 9, 9 to 10, 10 to 11, or is it yet to come? Or was Campagnolo's first derailleur not requiring you to get off the bike to turn around the wheel to switch between 2 gears (total) a gimmick?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 267 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 18  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], russianbear and 50 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Shimano/SRAM 11 Speed wheels on Campy 11 Speed

in Road

dvincere

1

383

Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:51 pm

Butcher View the latest post

This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Campy 11 speed shifters with 10 speed mech

in Road

Speedjeff

2

338

Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:29 pm

mrd View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Tune Mag 180 hub campy 10 speed to 11 speed

in Road

adrien de la touche

8

521

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:50 pm

jmartpr View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Ultegra 11-32 11 speed cassette verified compatible w campy

in Road

Bantamben

8

566

Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:15 pm

Ritterview View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Shimergo? Tiagra triple 10 speed & Campy veloce ergo levers

in Road

onesweetkitty

4

590

Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:50 pm

DMF View the latest post


It is currently Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:53 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB