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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:17 pm 
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Rich_W wrote:
folks -- from an unnamed industry insider...

Take a look on the specs on the '09 Bora Ultra Two Wheelset... lets see... you get:

* Ceramic Bearings
* Compatable with Shimano (sacraledge! can the pope intervene here?)
* Compatable with Campy 9, 10 and 11 Speed!

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No different in compatibility to 2008 stuff. IE 2 freehub bodies - Campag 9/10/11 AND Shimano HG


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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:17 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:20 pm 
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So does this mean that a 2009 campy cassette body on 2009 wheels range can take both Shimano and Campy cassettes? That's pretty cool.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:33 pm 
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HanSolo wrote:
So does this mean that a 2009 campy cassette body on 2009 wheels range can take both Shimano and Campy cassettes? That's pretty cool.


This does not make sense, will Campy '09 wheels be like Zipp, and others, where you can changed the free hub body? Will the '09 set just accept both Shimano/Sram and Campy out of the box, and take 9-11 campy and i assume 8-10 Shimano all on the same free-hub body?


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:34 pm 
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HanSolo wrote:
So does this mean that a 2009 campy cassette body on 2009 wheels range can take both Shimano and Campy cassettes? That's pretty cool.

ultimobici wrote:
Rich_W wrote:
folks -- from an unnamed industry insider...

Take a look on the specs on the '09 Bora Ultra Two Wheelset... lets see... you get:

* Ceramic Bearings
* Compatable with Shimano (sacraledge! can the pope intervene here?)
* Compatable with Campy 9, 10 and 11 Speed!

Image

No different in compatibility to 2008 stuff. IE 2 freehub bodies - Campag 9/10/11 AND Shimano HG
Someone said that a 11speed cassette does not need to be wider than current one really to accommodate 11 gears. Also that the chain could be about the same size as ten speed.

Quote:
The new 11 speed will allegedly fit into the same space as current 10 speed. Current Mavic hubs only lack 1mm to accomodate 11 cogs with Shimano spacing. The new 11 speed will have very similar cog width and spacing.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:37 pm 
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for years campy wheels have had a shimano freehub option. this is nothing new!


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:37 pm 
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I run my CX bikes with a Campy 1x10 drivetrain currently, this the possibility of having an extra gear is appealing. That of course depends on durability, but I haven't had a single issue with the current 10 speed stuff and Campy usually does their homework. I also like the idea of having 12-25 or 11-23 cassettes with an 18T.

I just hope they don't muck with the shifter design *too* much, as I really love the looks and feel of the current models.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:59 pm 
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fujiteam wrote:
HanSolo wrote:
So does this mean that a 2009 campy cassette body on 2009 wheels range can take both Shimano and Campy cassettes? That's pretty cool.


This does not make sense, will Campy '09 wheels be like Zipp, and others, where you can changed the free hub body? Will the '09 set just accept both Shimano/Sram and Campy out of the box, and take 9-11 campy and i assume 8-10 Shimano all on the same free-hub body?


This is nothing new. There is one cassette body for Shimano and a different one for Campy. They can be changed out.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:06 pm 
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big deal, nuvinci has a rear hub with infinite gears
because this one goes without steps u get a gear for every setting the cable can handle
it has 2 cables actualy like a rohllof 14
pitty the rear wheel weighs 6kg

ontopic: this must be hard for shimano, anyway they will still stay oem leader i geus


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:10 pm 
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Alan Sherman wrote:
So assuming the dish remains the same will this mean a 10% reduction in the width of a chain? So a 5.45 mm width chain? How much more likely is this to fail?

Shame to move away from a new found 'standard' 10 speed chain width.


The chain width has been reported to be 5.5mm. No word on cog thickness or spacing, but using past values for minimum clearance, the cogs can't be any thicker than Shimano's 1.6mm. I'm predicting something very close to 1.5mm cog thickness, with 2.2mm spacers, for a c-c spacing around 3.7mm. Cog thickness might be a bit more, if the space between the largest cog and spokes is reduced a bit.

Even the crank/chainrings will be 11 speed, but no word yet on whether the difference will be a change to the tooth thickness, or just a minor chainring spacing change. As it stands now, there is about .33mm clearance between inner sideplates and chainring teeth. If that clearance can't be reduced a bit, then the chainrings may indeed be 11 speed specific. Time will tell.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:29 pm 
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Why is there sudden antagonism over 11 Speed? As far as I can see, 9 speed was fine, but 10 speed was better and 11 will be slightly better again.

So long as Campag makes a durable system which does not fall apart upon riding :!: 11 speed will be fine. An extra gear could be useful.

However, IF campag presents the 11 speed groupset as the one big selling point of 2009, then perhaps we have something to worry about. As it is, it could be one of many tweaks, which will make Record 2009 a great groupset.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:14 am 
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I think this could be a good thing, as long as durability doesn't get worse.

I like the idea of doing a crit or TT with a single front ring sporting an 11-25 with decent spacing. Loose one cable (better aero for the TT) loose the front mech and LHS brifter. A lot of saved weight.

TT bike - 55x12/27 (4.58:1 - 2.03:1)
Crit bike - 53x11/25 (4.82:1 - 2.12:1)
Climbing bike - 40x11/27 (3.64:1-1.48:1)

or go wider

Yes you can get many of these ratios already, but the spacing will be more usuable! You won't get those large jumps until right at the end of the cassette

What about when we get to 15 speed?
climbing - 45x11/33
flat course 53x12/30

I really find it odd when a company chnages something.

IT'S CALL PROGRESS!

If we were all riding lugged steel bikes with 10 gears this website wouldn't be called weight weenies it would be call lug weenies.

Yes we are going to get more gears, bikes will get lighter and stiffer, and bearings will get smoother. And yes the top end will remain stupidly expensive.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:09 am 
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Phill P wrote:
I think this could be a good thing, as long as durability doesn't get worse.

I like the idea of doing a crit or TT with a single front ring sporting an 11-25 with decent spacing. Loose one cable (better aero for the TT) loose the front mech and LHS brifter. A lot of saved weight.

TT bike - 55x12/27 (4.58:1 - 2.03:1)
Crit bike - 53x11/25 (4.82:1 - 2.12:1)
Climbing bike - 40x11/27 (3.64:1-1.48:1)

or go wider

Yes you can get many of these ratios already, but the spacing will be more usuable! You won't get those large jumps until right at the end of the cassette

What about when we get to 15 speed?
climbing - 45x11/33
flat course 53x12/30

I really find it odd when a company chnages something.

IT'S CALL PROGRESS!

If we were all riding lugged steel bikes with 10 gears this website wouldn't be called weight weenies it would be call lug weenies.

Yes we are going to get more gears, bikes will get lighter and stiffer, and bearings will get smoother. And yes the top end will remain stupidly expensive.
Check with David Millar about losing the front mech!


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:33 am 
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Phill P wrote:
I think this could be a good thing, as long as durability doesn't get worse.
´
I think durability willl get worse.
10-speed has worse durability than 9-speed, and 9-speed has worse durability than 8-speed. So I can't see why 11-speed shouldn't have worse durability than 10-speed. The more cogs and the narrower the chain is, the quicker it will wear.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:48 am 
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Phill P wrote:
IT'S CALL PROGRESS!

If we were all riding lugged steel bikes with 10 gears this website wouldn't be called weight weenies it would be call lug weenies.

Yes we are going to get more gears, bikes will get lighter and stiffer, and bearings will get smoother. And yes the top end will remain stupidly expensive.


I agree that lighter, stiffer & smoother bearings would be great but I didn't think there was a demand for more gears! Progress can be a wonderful thing but 11spd sounds like change for the sake of it and a marketing ploy?

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Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:48 am 


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:02 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Anyone ever tried ceramic chains and ceramic toothed cassttes? Would help durability and be lighter than steel. If strong enough could go narrower spacing and more gears again!!


Lets face it, at the ultra high end, sponsored pro level, the riders don't care about durability (as long as it performs to the end of the day). These guys don't pay for this stuff either. We consumers then salavate over it and it builds brand image.

Maybe only super record will ever have 11 speed, and maybe it will only be avaliable in very limited volumes outside of sponsored riders.


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