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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:29 pm 
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Ok... I've been sitting on this for a long time now, and thought I'd finally just throw it out there to see if anyone else has come across this.

The issue: Chain will derail as it comes into the lower rear pulley, as if the pulley is splayed outward and causes it to ride over the outside links and derail. It will do this from the get go if it is a problem, in fact, when initially installing the chain and before even attaching a derailleur cable it exhibits this. It is not and adjustment issue. The derailleur hanger is perfectly aligned. The hanger itself meets all Campagnolos specifications. As does the frame. And all parts are Campagnolo 2015 and thus compatible with each other.

Here's the pics showing what happens...

Just checking chain length per Campy specs... fine.
Image


From the rear...
Image


From the side, showing the pulley actually derailing off the outside of the chain...
Image

In Troubleshooting:
This was a new 2015 setup on a previously perfectly functioning pre-2015 Super Record setup. No issues with the previous setup. No matter what the derailing would occur. This is in a small/small combo so it for sure highlights the issue but regardless the chain should run smoothly in that combo as well. Even tried adjusting the limit screw so far in that it would almost shift to the second cog but the issue remained.

Took the derailleur and installed on a different frame that was running Campy SR perfectly. Same thing. Would derail. But it was really hard to see where the SR cage was (if in fact it even was) bent. Did a lot of checking with three different derailleurs... 1) a pre 2015 SR derailleur; 2) a 2015 Chorus derailleur; and 3) a 2015 SR derailleur. The two derailleurs that worked fine, when placed pulleys cage down on a perfectly flat steel surface would not wobble. The problematic derailleur in the same situation would have a slight wobble so that's when I first figured the cage assembly must be slightly bent.

A second derailleur was sent to me from the same supplier that did exactly the same thing, at which time I was going crazy thinking I must be doing something wrong with the 2015 stuff. I wasn't.

Finally, I decided to swap cages with the pre 2015 SR derailleur that was working fine. And the problem was solved. So rather than have a 3rd derailleur sent to me, I opted for a Chorus cage, confident that the problem was isolated to the cage. And it worked fine after that.

I'm posting this here, because I asked about this at a shop I go to sometimes if they ever encountered it and they said "once", but they could never figure out how to fix it. The customer was eventually given another derailleur and when I asked if that fixed the problem they said they didn't know as he never came back. Probably very frustrated at that point I would bet. I did internet searches for this issue but didn't come up with anything. Yet I personally have seen two derailleurs like this, and know of a third that I just mentioned. And they all came from the same supplier so I'm thinking this may have affected a very small batch of derailleurs. But I just want to post it here to see if anyone else has experienced the same thing. Hope not, because it was frustrating to resolve.

I fear however, that there may be some rich coffee shop mamils out there bragging about their Super Record stuff and how it's the bees knees then after their coffee they go riding off to the sound of a semi derailing chain. lol. Not good. Now, sitting around talking about your bikes is just fine, but it better be silent when you ride off. We must do what we can.

:beerchug:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:53 pm 
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There is a thread out there detailing this exact issue. You are not the first. The carbon cages were either distorted at the start, or they became distorted after a while. Campy are obviously aware and were replacing RD's that showed this problem. I'll go look for the thread.

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:53 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:59 pm 
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Do you have a link to that thread? I really searched hard at the time (early summer 2015) and couldn't find anything. So I was following a thread in WW about rear derailleur issues but there was nothing there that didn't smack of simple setup issues. Without detailing the problem at the time I posted to that thread fishing for others who experienced it, and eventually one on WW did, so I said I'd post exactly what was going on but didn't get around to it till now.

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Colnago C60 - PR99
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:16 pm 
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I found this - but you were a contributor. It must be the one I was thinking of.

Quote:
I found 1 SR '15 RD "bent". basically it was issue from factory state- outer cage of jockeys was not straight, it set lower jockey angled what caused noisy chain work and "eating" jockey wheel by chain. Dealer replaced RD, all issues are gone.


http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=136475&hilit=record+rear+cage&start=0

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:20 pm 
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Yes, that's the thread I was watching closely but nothing definitive in there other than typical setup stuff. That post you quoted was probably the closest. Was looking for a bit more. But thanks for forwarding.

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C59 Five Years Later
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Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:45 pm 
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Location: UK
It would be useful to see your RD, or RDs, Calnago ...

Until we have enough pieces to definitely see how the issue is manifesting itself, it's hard to say x, y or z is the cause.

BTW, the 2015 production of cages is not in any way separate from the (current) production of 2009/2014 model production. It's the same part, made on the same line, the same way.

Distortion in the cage - no, we have seen no evidence of this.

Please contact us direct at Velotech Cycling Ltd (velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com) and we'll have a look at your RD or RDs and see where the issue lays.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:58 pm 
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Calnago I just think you are slowly becoming a Trek-Shimano guy... :/

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:36 pm 
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Calnago wrote:
Yes, that's the thread I was watching closely but nothing definitive in there other than typical setup stuff. That post you quoted was probably the closest. Was looking for a bit more. But thanks for forwarding.


There was the usual mix of issues, but I thought that there were several more convincing posts:

Quote:
I found 1 SR '15 RD "bent". basically it was issue from factory state- outer cage of jockeys was not straight, it set lower jockey angled what caused noisy chain work and "eating" jockey wheel by chain. Dealer replaced RD, all issues are gone.


Quote:
I had to replace a Super Record rear derailleur because the carbon fiber cage had deformed to the point that it was no longer functioning properly. The deformation looked like elastomeric creep had taken place.

This was the first iteration of the Super Record 11 speed rear derailleur. From new to the point of replacement was over the course of a few years though. It looked to me that the reason for the twist in the cage was from the constant load from the chain/tension spring.

I still have the derailleur on my desk, as its cage is still twisted. New derailleur solved the shifting problem. In my case, the part was out of warranty. For reference, the derailleur had never taken an impact.


Quote:
Had the same thing happen to mine. Bought a chorus rear derailleur and switched out the carbon fiber cage assembly with the one from the chorus. Haven't had a problem since.


Quote:
When I first purchased and assembled my rear derailleur, it shifted pretty well, for a first gen 11 speed iteration. I can tell you, that over time the twist became more prominent, until the increasingly poor shifting just became unbearable. No amount of hanger adjustment would help.

The 2015 Chorus cages have coplanar inner race mating surfaces, in other words, no twist or bias. The shifting with this derailleur continues to be fantastic!


_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:37 pm 
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Posts: 573
Location: USA
bikerjulio wrote:
I found this - but you were a contributor. It must be the one I was thinking of.

Quote:
I found 1 SR '15 RD "bent". basically it was issue from factory state- outer cage of jockeys was not straight, it set lower jockey angled what caused noisy chain work and "eating" jockey wheel by chain. Dealer replaced RD, all issues are gone.


http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=136475&hilit=record+rear+cage&start=0


I was also a contributor on that thread. I still have a Super Record RD with a distorted/twisted cage. Installed a Chorus RD is everything is fine and perfectly aligned.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:47 pm 
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BikerJulio, yes, those are similar it seems but no one was really complaining of the chain actually derailing because of it, so I wasn't really sure I suppose.

In any case, I'm in touch with Graeme offline and will work through this a little more thoroughly. I will report the results when we've got a little more to go on. Thanks all.

@kgt: what is this "shimano" stuff you speak of? :)

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C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:46 pm 
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Posts: 79
Location: Glasgow, Ky
I had this exact problem and discussed it with Graeme about 6 month ago. I bent the hanger very slightly to angle the derailleur inboard and all is well. My hanger is still within Campagnolo spec, just a tad out of perfect alignment. 2500 miles without a single shift problem. I will say on 4 other bikes running either SR EPS or 2014 SR mech I and never had this issue.

-Eddie Bruner


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:02 am 
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Had the same problem with my 2015 Campy SR RD mounted on the DeRosa.

Calnago, I thought you had zero issues running small-small combo previously?
Or was it on the 2014 RD?
Btw, appreciate if you can share the outcome/solution with us..

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:11 am 
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I will share the outcome which should be in a couple of weeks or so.
@Maverick... Yes, zero problems with small/small so long as everything is sound and set up properly. Not sure what you're referring to? There were zero problems until I changed everything to the 2015 stuff. It's all good now and I think it was just a freak thing and nothing to do with the 2015 stuff in general. Going to do a couple tests with the cage at issue in the next build to verify a couple things then will report back.
@Maverick: are you still having issues with yours?

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C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:04 am 
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Small small is bad mkayyy

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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:04 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:10 pm 
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I'll install a super record group tomorrow, hopefully it'll all go smoothly !


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