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 Post subject: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:25 pm
Posts: 28
Hi!

I have considered to upgrade my bike to new madone 9 series.
Madone come with H1 fitting with OCLV700 or H2 fitting with OCLV600 carbon.
I saw a posting that madone 9 with OCLV700 and OCLV600 have about 100g of weight difference. But their price is much more than $100...

I have a question. Put aside the weight difference, is difference btw h1 fit and h2 fit huge?


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 Post subject: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:44 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:31 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Brisbane, Australia
It's essentially a 3cm difference in head tube length.

Compare the stack and reach to get the full picture compared to your current bike.

Any Trek store that has a Precision Fit facility should be able to use the Pure Position software to determine stem length and spacers etc. based on the X & Y coordinates of your current bike.


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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:25 pm
Posts: 28
TomHelly wrote:
Any Trek store that has a Precision Fit facility should be able to use the Pure Position software to determine stem length and spacers etc. based on the X & Y coordinates of your current bike.


Hmm.. 3cm seems large difference.. anyway Precision fit sounds awesome. I should go to Trek store in near weekends. thx! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm
Posts: 1281
Well, on a 54 the difference in reach (H1 - H2) is 39.0 - 38.1 and stack 52.6 - 55.5 so yeah, it's a big difference.

By comparison there is the same reach difference and 10mm less stack difference between a 54 Supersix Evo and 54 Synapse from Cannondale, which are full on race vs full on sportive bikes.

I would definitely advise finding out which one fits your position best before going ahead.


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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm
Posts: 429
... and the 54 Supersix Evo is much closer to the H2 54 than the H1 54 (H2 54 is ~10mm higher and less than 5mm shorter)

Don't think of think of H2 as a sportive fit,
H1 really is long & low for racing snakes.


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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:14 pm 
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Location: Islip, NY
jeffy wrote:
... and the 54 Supersix Evo is much closer to the H2 54 than the H1 54 (H2 54 is ~10mm higher and less than 5mm shorter)

Don't think of think of H2 as a sportive fit,
H1 really is long & low for racing snakes.


True. Those H1s are really "low and pro".

I would really be stretching things on one and I don't exactly have a "club" fit on the bike . A 54cm Tarmac is spot on.

I'd like to see Trek have some sort of middle ground between the two, but then again I'm not in the market so it's academic.

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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:41 pm 
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Yeah, the H1's are really aggressive. The H2 (Emonda) fits me perfectly in a 60cm and I'm still using their rather "tall" headset cover. A 3cm shorter headtube would simply mean I'm stuffing 3cm of spacers in there, not good from either an aesthetic point of view or a functional point of view since I'd be giving up some support of the taller headtube and having the headset bearings spaced farther apart. But if you want to go all out/aero, then lower is obviously better, but generally at the expense of comfort etc.
Gotta say, if I wanted an all out aero road bike, the new Madone is the one I'd opt for. But I don't, and I still prefer the more traditional frames for pretty much every other reason than aero. If I was serious about aero, there is so much more benefit I could get from changing my own body position and diet than a frameset.

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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:09 pm
Posts: 45
I had a Dogma 65.1 and just got a new Madone (54). I was in doubt between H1 and H2. I could go for H1 and put a couple spacers or go for H2 slammed. Head tube on Dogma is 147 (more with the headset cup), on Madone H1 is 120 and on H2 155. I decided to go for H2 slammed and I am loving it. Bike is fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:13 pm
Posts: 210
Calnago wrote:
Yeah, the H1's are really aggressive. The H2 (Emonda) fits me perfectly in a 60cm and I'm still using their rather "tall" headset cover. A 3cm shorter headtube would simply mean I'm stuffing 3cm of spacers in there, not good from either an aesthetic point of view or a functional point of view since I'd be giving up some support of the taller headtube and having the headset bearings spaced farther apart. But if you want to go all out/aero, then lower is obviously better, but generally at the expense of comfort etc.
Gotta say, if I wanted an all out aero road bike, the new Madone is the one I'd opt for. But I don't, and I still prefer the more traditional frames for pretty much every other reason than aero. If I was serious about aero, there is so much more benefit I could get from changing my own body position and diet than a frameset.


Which brings up the question: How true are those geometry measurements when it comes to the this specific frameset? Is the stack taking into account the headset bearing cover that even extends a little above the top tube (i.e. it is not flush, and if you remove it then the bearing sits well below the top surface of the top tube). What about the stack and effective stem angle of the one piece bar combo? Yea it is "level" on the top but it seems as if the tops of the bar actually sit fairly high up from where the bottom of the stem contacts a spacer or bearing cover. Can us normal people get one of those wacky, super negative, bar combos like Hesjedal has on his bike?

Point being that with the wave of fully integrated aero bikes we are seeing hit the market, I think some form of updated, more thorough geometry charts are necessary. (Heck, the geometry chart model for the Madone 9 is a 2 generation old Madone with a traditional stem and bar. What good do those reference points do?) Especially with Treks route where people have the option of buying the bike online and shipping it to a store, without ever getting a fit on the bike prior to purchase. But hopefully a somewhat geometry conscious individual would realize this and take the necessary steps to figure out what size they need.

I know I'm not the only one who spends wayyy too much time looking at geometry charts and imagining what my setup would be...right? :| :unbelievable:

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 Post subject: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:10 am 
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@hornedfrog: Any geometry chart, and any method, is only relevant if you know where the points being measured are and how it compares to your own setup. Stack never (as far as I know) takes into account the headset covers etc, and some can be short, some can be tall. And if the reach of two bikes isn't measured at exactly the same stack height, then those numbers will be different as well. For my own setups, I like to know exactly where I want my stem to start on the steer tube, maybe from the front axle, but then to be comparable you also need to know the BB drop etc. Point is, all these numbers provide you is a reference point and you have to reconcile them with whatever your particular setup is. Stem and bar differences play a huge factor in determining final setup as well, as you point out.

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Last edited by Calnago on Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 153
Image

Or ride H2 with -17 slammed stem .. :shock: :noidea:


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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm
Posts: 1281
Or be like Cav using a relaxed bike setup for off season training, slammed for sprints, in between for hilly stages etc...


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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 153
That image was posted on Trek team page as bike for TDU .. the rest were all madones.

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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm
Posts: 783
H1's are sic


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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:34 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Madone 9 H1 vs. H2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:09 pm
Posts: 45
Orange one is H2, correct?


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